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 Post subject: Ray Collins leaving MOI
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:46 am 
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Can anyone let me know why Ray left the Mothers in 1968 only to return in a short time. Is there any interviews or anything explaining this? Was there a falling out between him and the others or more specifically Zappa.

Did he work with Zappa at all after the Mothers were disbanded for good?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:54 am 
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NuclearProstate wrote:

Did he work with Zappa at all after the Mothers were disbanded for good?


His last work with Zappa was on the album Apostrophe.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:18 pm 
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Regarding the first paragraph as far as I know the tensions were only between Ray and FZ. Ray resisted FZ's creative control of the group and also had more favorable opinions about hippies and drugs than Zappa did.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:03 pm 
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In one of his last interviews, he said his reason for leaving the band was that there was "too much comedy, too much making fun of stuff. I just wanted to make beautiful music. I was raised on Johnny Mathis and Nat King Cole." I don't know that I buy it - he always seemed to be having fun desecrating the oldies medleys or smarming his way through the America Drinks outros.

http://www2.dailybulletin.com/ci_12484780


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:38 am 
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Chris_Ekman wrote:
In one of his last interviews, he said his reason for leaving the band was that there was "too much comedy, too much making fun of stuff. I just wanted to make beautiful music. I was raised on Johnny Mathis and Nat King Cole." I don't know that I buy it - he always seemed to be having fun desecrating the oldies medleys or smarming his way through the America Drinks outros.

http://www2.dailybulletin.com/ci_12484780


Well, it is in fact possible to make the most of the routine, even if one would rather sing the more romantic Nat King Cole songs. Plus, it may have even been that Ray was able to realise that Zappa's eventual shift into the more slapstick kind of comedy/humour a la Flo & Eddie (and beyond) was inevitable.

Art Tripp has posted here as gulfportdoc in the past. He had some things to say about the day Ray made his resignation announcement:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17099&p=422291#p422291

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It was in 1968. We were in Chicago driving to the gig. Ian was driving. Frank was in the shotgun seat, and Ray and I sat in the back seat. We'd been laughing and joking, when all of a sudden out of the blue, Ray said, "Frank I think I'm going to quit the band." There was a stunned silence. I got a sick feeling in my stomach. Frank finally asked him when he was going to leave. That was his last tour, although Ray played a few gigs with us again in California. I recall one in San Diego just after that idiot from the Doors had exposed himself on stage. Ray made some great stage jokes about the guy at that concert.

To me, Ray was the soul and spirit of the Mothers. He not only had a great voice, but his limitless sense of humor, and his odd way of looking at things made him a joy to be with both on and off stage. When he left, it really was never the same again. He performed both the satire and difficult charts so well, that I never knew until much later that he really didn't like doing that stuff.

Ray has always been a true vagabond, and resisted being tied down or being told what to do. He loved to sing, and he never gave a damn about money. We still correspond once in awhile. And Ray is just as contented today as he ever was.

Art Tripp

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:33 am 
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Ray seemed like such a gentle man, too good for this world.

So why did he return to the Mothers? Did he just really want to do CWRATJ?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:43 am 
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NuclearProstate wrote:
So why did he return to the Mothers? Did he just really want to do CWRATJ?


They recorded CWRATJ before he left.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:16 am 
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NP may confuse the 1968 departure with the WOIIFTM absence during 1967. In that case, I have no idea why Ray Collins went away for a while and why Don Preston went away for a week, but I think at some point FZ commented that everybody in the Mothers had quit a few times or something to that effect.

If Art Tripp's words are entirely accurate, then it may have been that Ray Collins did sit in with the Mothers in 1969. FZ Giglist says MOI played in San Diego in April 12th that year. That's the only San Diego MOI gig after Jim Morrison's scandalous self-exposing. So perhaps Ray Collins appeared as a guest at the 69/04/12 San Diego gig?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:37 am 
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The Ray Collins interview article says that Cruising came after his departure, so perhaps Ray or the writer were confused. The comments that he announced his departure in Chicago and that they were about to play in Seattle (and the Vancouver gig heard on Road Tapes) mean that the depature was likely in August 1968.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:57 pm 
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I suppose I got confused when I said 68 I meant 67. That is why I wondered why he came back to do cruising and uncle meat. I'm so glad he returned though. His performance on Anything is the greatest thing ever.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:42 am 
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The last time that I know Ray played with Frank live was at the Contempo '70 concert where Frank played 200 Motels with Zuben Mehda(?) at the Pauley Pavilion on May 15, 1970. Ray also did some shows with Frank at the Fillmore East on May 7, 8, 1970. At those shows, Ray sounded like he was having fun.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:15 am 
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I'm Hung-Up wrote:
The last time that I know Ray played with Frank live was at the Contempo '70 concert where Frank played 200 Motels with Zuben Mehda(?) at the Pauley Pavilion on May 15, 1970. Ray also did some shows with Frank at the Fillmore East on May 7, 8, 1970. At those shows, Ray sounded like he was having fun.


FZ referred to this lineup as the "interim sort-of Mothers" that he formed for that concert with Zubin Mehta. They also did a short warm up tour including the Fillmore East shows you mention. Ray and former Mothers Billy Mundi, Don Preston and Motorhead came back for this tour along with current members Ian Underwood, Jeff Simmons and Aynsley Dunbar.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:25 am 
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pbuzby wrote:
I'm Hung-Up wrote:
The last time that I know Ray played with Frank live was at the Contempo '70 concert where Frank played 200 Motels with Zuben Mehda(?) at the Pauley Pavilion on May 15, 1970. Ray also did some shows with Frank at the Fillmore East on May 7, 8, 1970. At those shows, Ray sounded like he was having fun.


FZ referred to this lineup as the "interim sort-of Mothers" that he formed for that concert with Zubin Mehta. They also did a short warm up tour including the Fillmore East shows you mention. Ray and former Mothers Billy Mundi, Don Preston and Motorhead came back for this tour along with current members Ian Underwood, Jeff Simmons and Aynsley Dunbar.


There's a tour program for Fillmore that looks like it was going to feature seven pieces, six of them from sixties MOI, with only Jeff as a newcomer. I guess the decision to add Ainsley came a bit later. Then again, wasn't Art Tripp also expected to join the Zubin Mehta concert? He said he "stopped going to the rehearsals" because he couldn't get on with Jeff. Clearly, on the Mehta show there is a drummer for the bits that were in 1969 performed as "Piano/Drum Duet". Who could that be? Were either Ainsley or Billy good enough to navigate through this piece? Ruth later took over the drummer role for "Redneck Eats" on the 200 Motels soundtrack.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:59 am 
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I was at the two Fillmore East shows. I specifically remember Ray having a lot of fun with "My Boyfriends Back". The first show (Friday late) the first time I had seen Frank in person. The show was so good and I was so excited that I bought a ticket for the next night (Saturday late show). I have no recollection of the opening act at all.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:35 pm 
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Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
Clearly, on the Mehta show there is a drummer for the bits that were in 1969 performed as "Piano/Drum Duet". Who could that be? Were either Ainsley or Billy good enough to navigate through this piece? Ruth later took over the drummer role for "Redneck Eats" on the 200 Motels soundtrack.



Interesting question. Perhaps it could also have been someone from the Philharmonic.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:55 am 
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jmuskat wrote:
I was at the two Fillmore East shows. I specifically remember Ray having a lot of fun with "My Boyfriends Back". The first show (Friday late) the first time I had seen Frank in person. The show was so good and I was so excited that I bought a ticket for the next night (Saturday late show). I have no recollection of the opening act at all.



If memory serves, it was the Hampton Grease Band

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:46 am 
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Hampton Grease Band opened in June 1971.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:59 pm 
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The Mothers Reunion line-up that played the Fillmore in 1970, if available info is correct, was:

The Mothers of Invention (Reunion) - May 8 & 9, 1970 at the Fillmore East, NYC

Frank Zappa guitar, vocals
Ray Collins vocals
Don Preston keyboards
Motorhead Sherwood baritone saxophone
Ian Underwood alto saxophone
Jeff Simmons bass, vocals
Billy Mundi drums
Aynsley Dunbar drums

In the book Electric Don Quixote, it states clearly that Billy Mundi, Motorhead and Ray Collins were called in for the Zubin Metha / 200 Motels Suite presentation (I checked).


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:13 pm 
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Love that Fillmore program. The Insect Trust have been a favorite band of mine since 1970. (Hoboken Saturday Night is in fact their second album).
I anxiously await the invention of the time machine so I can go back and see this incredible double bill.


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