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 Post subject: Re: Road Tapes!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:04 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
... I got a hunch that the reason a 1973 show with JLP hasn't appeared has been because FZ considered them the most boring group he ever had. It must've been them that FZ sneered about in "Po-Jama People" ...
I heard that it was the Wazoo band that he was having a go at.


Opinions on that seem to differ, see http://www.arf.ru/Notes/Osfa/poja.html. Charles Ulrich maintains it was the first 1973 band.

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 Post subject: Re: Road Tapes!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:52 pm 
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Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
polydigm wrote:
Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
... I got a hunch that the reason a 1973 show with JLP hasn't appeared has been because FZ considered them the most boring group he ever had. It must've been them that FZ sneered about in "Po-Jama People" ...
I heard that it was the Wazoo band that he was having a go at.


Opinions on that seem to differ, see http://www.arf.ru/Notes/Osfa/poja.html. Charles Ulrich maintains it was the first 1973 band.


I believe an FZ interview remark surfaced confirming that it was in fact the early 73 band.

As far as a 73 show appearing in Road Tapes, I believe Gail promised a Ponty era release in "GZ Sez." Ponty also sat in with ZPZ last year, which seems a good sign.


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 Post subject: Re: Road Tapes!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:52 am 
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Makes sense that it was the 73 band. Either way it seems to me that FZ wanted his cake and eat it too. It's not enough that he was able to attract brilliant musicians and that they would play their butts off for him they also had to keep him entertained between venues and be pigeons for his twisted little social experiments and when they won't play ball he gets nasty about it?

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 Post subject: Re: Road Tapes!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:13 pm 
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Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
Y'know, I don't necessarily agree with the users that claim all of the post-Läther posthumous releases are inferior to all the antecedent albums just because FZ himself wouldn't have put them out. But I got a hunch that the reason a 1973 show with JLP hasn't appeared has been
because FZ considered them the most boring group he ever had. It must've been them that FZ sneered about in "Po-Jama People". No wonder only a lame snippet of "Father O'Blivion" is on the YCDTOSA volumes, because every other touring band showcased (1960s MOI, Flo&Eddie group, the Roxy/Helsinki band with NMB, and every touring unit after that) had way more personality and humour collectively by Zappa's standards.


where are you getting this ridiculous info from? i have heard tons of interviews from all eras and have never heard FZ anything like that. don't make shit up.

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 Post subject: Re: Road Tapes!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:22 pm 
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jaypfunk wrote:
where are you getting this ridiculous info from? i have heard tons of interviews from all eras and have never heard FZ anything like that. don't make shit up.


One more time: http://www.arf.ru/Notes/Osfa/poja.html I wish it was ridiculous, but "Po-Jama People" IS about a Zappa band that wasn't fun enough for Zappa's liking. I hope the two interviews cited by Ben Watson will eventually surface at Avo Raup's website (afka.net) so that anyone can discern for oneself.

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 Post subject: Re: Road Tapes!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:34 pm 
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Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
where are you getting this ridiculous info from? i have heard tons of interviews from all eras and have never heard FZ anything like that. don't make shit up.


One more time: http://www.arf.ru/Notes/Osfa/poja.html I wish it was ridiculous, but "Po-Jama People" IS about a Zappa band that wasn't fun enough for Zappa's liking. I hope the two interviews cited by Ben Watson will eventually surface at Avo Raup's website (afka.net) so that anyone can discern for oneself.


he said boring PEOPLE, no fun on the bus or to be with. he didn't call the music they played boring. so the the ridiculous thought that he didn't release much MUSIC from that band because they were "boring" is incorrect.

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Last edited by jaypfunk on Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Road Tapes!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:36 pm 
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oh and Ben Watson is a shitdick

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 Post subject: Re: Road Tapes!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:41 pm 
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No go home and get your fuckin' shine box!

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 Post subject: Re: Road Tapes!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:39 pm 
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jaypfunk wrote:
oh and Ben Watson is a shitdick


But an interesting shitdick. Unlike Barry Miles, who is merely a shitdick.

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 Post subject: Re: Road Tapes!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:50 pm 
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Lest anybody think otherwise, I didn't say the 1973 band was a bore musically. If I did, clearly I was not precise enough. However, I still suspect FZ must've thought the 1974 band played "Dupree's Paradise" (just one example) with more verve, conviction and groovy vibes than the 1973 group. I would also cite "RDNZL" and "Inca Roads", good examples of tunes that reached their definitive form with the June-December 1974 sextet. FZ must've found the Helsinki group so fully-formed that the 1973 band may have appeared a bit formative and provisional in comparison.

I think it was just an unfortunate set of circumstances that the line-up changed so much, Jean-Luc thought the Mothers was becoming too commercial and Ian's reasons may have ranged from wanting to move on to other ventures to...well, a crisis in his relationship with Ruth (just a speculation, no definitive answer). I also think it's weird Zappa got a second drummer Fall '73 and then ditched the first drummer by mid-74. Was Ralph not sufficient enough by himself?

But enough of talking (hopefully not out of arse, but still), if the 1973 MOI with JLP show is really in the pipeline, we'll just have to wait patiently.

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 Post subject: Re: Road Tapes!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:03 pm 
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Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
I also think it's weird Zappa got a second drummer Fall '73 and then ditched the first drummer by mid-74. Was Ralph not sufficient enough by himself?



Going to hazard a guess FZ wanted someone who could groove more than Ralph, while also still needing Ralph to handle the odd meters and tuplets that Chester didn't know yet. Plus FZ liked experimenting with two drummers. I believe Ralph has said by 1974 he and FZ both thought it was the right time for Ralph to leave.


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 Post subject: Re: Road Tapes!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:58 pm 
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jaypfunk wrote:
Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
where are you getting this ridiculous info from? i have heard tons of interviews from all eras and have never heard FZ anything like that. don't make shit up.


One more time: http://www.arf.ru/Notes/Osfa/poja.html I wish it was ridiculous, but "Po-Jama People" IS about a Zappa band that wasn't fun enough for Zappa's liking. I hope the two interviews cited by Ben Watson will eventually surface at Avo Raup's website (afka.net) so that anyone can discern for oneself.


he said boring PEOPLE, no fun on the bus or to be with. he didn't call the music they played boring. so the the ridiculous thought that he didn't release much MUSIC from that band because they were "boring" is incorrect.


Agreed. What a bunch of crap...

And anyway, how can ANY true FZ fan not like the winter/spring/summer '73 band?

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 Post subject: re: road tapes v2
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:10 pm 
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road tapes v2 is from 1974, another joe's __age, also in vinyl

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 Post subject: Re: Road Tapes!
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 7:28 am 
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jaypfunk wrote:
Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
where are you getting this ridiculous info from? i have heard tons of interviews from all eras and have never heard FZ anything like that. don't make shit up.


One more time: http://www.arf.ru/Notes/Osfa/poja.html I wish it was ridiculous, but "Po-Jama People" IS about a Zappa band that wasn't fun enough for Zappa's liking. I hope the two interviews cited by Ben Watson will eventually surface at Avo Raup's website (afka.net) so that anyone can discern for oneself.


he said boring PEOPLE, no fun on the bus or to be with. he didn't call the music they played boring. so the the ridiculous thought that he didn't release much MUSIC from that band because they were "boring" is incorrect.


I always thought he said that Po-Jama People was directed at the "classical" musicians he had hired to play his classical pieces.

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 Post subject: Re: Road Tapes!
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:11 am 
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Here's a crrrrrrrrrrrrrazy thought... MAYBE IT'S JUST ABOUT PEOPLE THAT WEAR POJAMAS? What a concept huh?

Frank was always mocking the absurd so think about it...

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 Post subject: Re: Road Tapes!
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:49 am 
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http://www.afka.net/articles/1980-01_Musicians_Only.htm

"It doesn't make much difference to me in the studio, I could put a piece of music down in front of someone or just tell them how to play it. I have had bands where everyone has been a reader. The most boring band I had was like that and ultimately led to the song "[Po-Jama] People" which is written about that particular band which had people like Ruth (Underwood), George (Duke) and Ponty. You go on the road and you have these people living their life to play [Yahtzee] on the bus, and chess and engaging in intellectual juiceless pursuits. I like to have guys in the band who want to go out there and want to get laid. Without that attitude the performance of the music doesn't really work. They've got to have something that sets them apart from other people who are just as competent or technical.

"It's hard to find people who can play with real precision but also know how to put the fun into it, because there's a strong desire on the part of the audiences who come to our sort of shows to have a few laughs."

It's evident from 1974 tapes that he had more fun in the later bands with George and Ruth so perhaps losing some band members and gaining others helped.


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 Post subject: Re: Road Tapes!
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 1:27 pm 
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Quote:
It's evident from 1974 tapes that he had more fun in the later bands with George and Ruth so perhaps losing some band members and gaining others helped.


A good observation I would add. It's quite clear to my mind that certain two members that joined for the Fall '73 tour were more fun than the two members that last played on the previous European tour and it's quite possible that the Summer '74 lineup overhaul also served to reduce the "square" quota by at least a member or two. But something tells me Bruce Fowler was gone for reasons other than supposed "squareness". Was he fired? He probably was. I guess "Inca Roads" got so fast it was impossible to play it as good on trombone anymore.

It was also clear that Albert Wing, an excellent sax player, would've been more deserving of Ian Underwood's formidable shoes. However, FZ settled for someone who wasn't really that great of a sax player, but had powerful vocal cords and lots of stage presence. I guess he realised that having a bunch of technically skilled guys in itself was not enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Road Tapes!
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:19 am 
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Well, I was really hoping this would be a fairly frequent series. Guess not? No word on a Venue #2, eh?


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 Post subject: Re: Road Tapes!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:51 am 
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I am actually quite excited about this new release. I hope it contains the complete two shows. The line-up contained some great musicians and I could not believe anyone would think that music from this band would be boring, although it tended to be a bit more instrumentally oriented.

Po-jama people was written about Ian Underwood and Jean Luc Ponty (JLP) who liked to sit around and play chess in their pajamas. I think we all know what Frank thought about games and sports, and of course pajamas.

The reason so little had been released from this band is that Frank did not care for JLP who thought that he should be paid royalties for his solos and Frank also did not like JLP's soloing because after awhile it all sounded the same. My opinion is that Frank thought why advance the career of JLP, who I do not like, by releasing music from this band. So far to date, no music from this band has been officially released that has included any soloing by JLP excluding the one BTB I release and OS.

Now, that JLP has been performing Frank's music, namely at Zappendale, I believe the ZFT has decided it is time to release a live recording of this band; and I am quite happy for it!!!

A big Thanks to Gail and the rest of the munchkins!!!

Pete

PS Whatever happened to the album Frank was making from the Australian leg of this tour?


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 Post subject: Re: Road Tapes!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:42 pm 
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Harring10 wrote:

PS Whatever happened to the album Frank was making from the Australian leg of this tour?


We have the Yellow Snow medley split between YCDTOSA 6 and One Shot Deal, and I guess not much else came of it.


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 Post subject: Re: Road Tapes!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:05 am 
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I noticed last week on holiday that my father-in-law wears pojamas - don't ask........

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 Post subject: Re: Road Tapes!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:38 pm 
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Harring10 wrote:
So far to date, no music from this band has been officially released that has included any soloing by JLP excluding the one BTB I release and OS.


He appears on Lost Episodes as well.
For me this upcoming 73 release could be the best live release since Buffalo.

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 Post subject: Re: Road Tapes!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:44 am 
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Poughkeepsie NY 9-21-78 !!

http://youtu.be/CpIsQ0-tT8I


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 Post subject: Re: Road Tapes!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:10 am 
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Just noticed at the end of the 1974-Sep-25 Gothenburg Pojama People Nappy says "Chess Anyone?". A little conceptual continuity.


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 Post subject: Re: Road Tapes!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:41 pm 
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Musicians who want royalties for their solo's should learn to write songs.


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