Zappa.com

The Official Frank Zappa Messageboards
It is currently Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:34 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:18 pm
Posts: 2945
Location: Between the Badges
Ed got me thinking about WRMF (the title track) and how it relates to other pieces which feature feedback. A lot of bands used feedback in many different ways, although imo, most of them did it rather unthinkingly, just waving their instruments around until they squealed. Some players will mess around with their effects, many will lean their guitars against the amp and then leave the stage.
So, I'm thinking of other bands in relation to WRMF. Was it conducted? I have to think that there was some conducting going on. For most stuff with feedback on it, there are drums going on, maybe bass, often the bass feeding back too, sometimes drum mics knocked over have their effect. Usually, though its either just one instrument feeding back or general cacophony.
WRMF, however, sounds organized. The musicians are listening to each other rather than just making their equipment overload. Even if the horns are dissonant, they still act as a counterpoint to the feedback. The noise is carved into a Pompei-style Roger Waters scream. It has the sound of a machine screeching to a halt or a radiator about to blow. The group as a whole creates a result, rather than a lone freakout against a predictable background.
The only other piece that I've ever enjoyed on the same level as WRMF is Arc by Neil Young. He took a tour's worth of show-ending feedback, stringing it together to make a composition. I love it, but it is still largely NY's feedback set among the other instruments who make a backdrop for him. Which other bands out there worked along the lines of WRMF, using group feedback with other instruments playing to create a sonic environment on purpose, rather than the uninspired randomness that most show-ending blasts offer?

_________________
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Don't Be Stupid Unless You Want To


Last edited by The Forum Killed Arkay on Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:40 pm
Posts: 6911
Location: South wales
You Heard of Squeak and Squawk That's just a bit of Nasel going down on WRMF :wink:

I can't remember which FZ CD has the Royal Albert hall concert 1969 with Feedback a few Months after JH been there FZ said when he seen JH he left the Guitar Stuck Though the roof Obviously feedbacking :mrgreen:

_________________
Arf you out of your fucking mind.Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:50 am
Posts: 253
Location: London
Reezels Whipped my flesh :-)
Check the tittle of this post :-)

_________________
http://www.facebook.com/hakantunamusic


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:18 pm
Posts: 2945
Location: Between the Badges
Subject fixed! Hahahaha

_________________
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Don't Be Stupid Unless You Want To


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:42 am
Posts: 49
Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:18 pm
Posts: 2945
Location: Between the Badges
MMM, yep that's a relative of WRMF, despite just saying that being blasphemy to many FZ fans. I've always heard that LR created it in a very cavalier way, meaning not composed either prior to or during the piece. I think he just set stuff up and let it run. Its been a while, I should probably revisit that one. It does have that burn that WRMF has. That undulating slow burn of a running man on fire.

_________________
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Don't Be Stupid Unless You Want To


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:55 pm
Posts: 2158
Sunn O))) - Orthodox Caveman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYM2mm68_QQ

Earth - Earth 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls1OYn_xGzM


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:18 pm
Posts: 2945
Location: Between the Badges
Thanx downer, I checked out a bit of Sun O))) , started off great! Ill listen more when I can crank it up.

_________________
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Don't Be Stupid Unless You Want To


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 8:05 pm
Posts: 2695
Location: where the dogs roll by
The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
Ed got me thinking about WRMF (the title track) and how it relates to other pieces which feature feedback. A lot of bands used feedback in many different ways, although imo, most of them did it rather unthinkingly, just waving their instruments around until they squealed. Some players will mess around with their effects, many will lean their guitars against the amp and then leave the stage.
So, I'm thinking of other bands in relation to WRMF. Was it conducted? I have to think that there was some conducting going on. For most stuff with feedback on it, there are drums going on, maybe bass, often the bass feeding back too, sometimes drum mics knocked over have their effect. Usually, though its either just one instrument feeding back or general cacophony.
WRMF, however, sounds organized. The musicians are listening to each other rather than just making their equipment overload. Even if the horns are dissonant, they still act as a counterpoint to the feedback. The noise is carved into a Pompei-style Roger Waters scream. It has the sound of a machine screeching to a halt or a radiator about to blow. The group as a whole creates a result, rather than a lone freakout against a predictable background.
The only other piece that I've ever enjoyed on the same level as WRMF is Arc by Neil Young. He took a tour's worth of show-ending feedback, stringing it together to make a composition. I love it, but it is still largely NY's feedback set among the other instruments who make a backdrop for him. Which other bands out there worked along the lines of WRMF, using group feedback with other instruments playing to create a sonic environment on purpose, rather than the uninspired randomness that most show-ending blasts offer?

I've always enjoyed the early Grateful Dead pieces called Feedback. They almost always seemed to be bringing something more to the table than general cacophony. They seem to be listening to each other, playing off of each other. To paraphrase you, the group as a whole creates a result.

_________________
I can't tell when you're telling the truth.
>I'm not.
How do I know anything you've said to me is...
>You don't.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:33 am
Posts: 3516
as an aside, does anyone know where the Neon Park, Weasels art resides? It's a large canvas, right? Has it ever been put on display? Anyone have the Park book with Weasels on the cover? Details to be found?

unsuccessfully searching, I found this unused commission from:::::::::::
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:41 am
Posts: 418
Location: Centerville, Norway
http://www.amazon.com/Somewhere-Over-Rainbow-Neon-Park/dp/0867195207

Some Weasly Listening That I've Enjoyed Lately --

Image

Image

Image

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHcVkD7zF-M

_________________
If I'm not alone... How long have I been asleep?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:35 pm
Posts: 1259
Location: Ohio
Nurse With Wound -- Soliloquy for Lilith

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soliloquy_for_Lilith

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xJ-KdNSq_U

_________________
Good writing is clear writing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:07 am
Posts: 1520
Merzbow has considered Zappa as an influence:

http://wiki.killuglyradio.com/wiki/Merzbow

"I was influenced by Pierre Henry/Pierre Scheffer's 'A Symphony For A Lonely Man', 'The Chrome Plated Megaphone Of Destiny' from Mothers Of Invention's album 'We're Only In It For The Money', all songs in Frank Zappa's album 'Lumpy Gravy', and Iannis Xenakis's 'Persepolis'. My initial idea was to compose this kind of music in more 'punk rock' style."

Masami Akita has described Zappa as one of the few surrealist musicians who was "genuine". Even if it was still too musical for his taste. So I reckon "WRMF" may be one of the most compatible tracks in FZ' discography with Merzbow's artistic vision.

_________________
Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:09 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:41 am
Posts: 1177
I like the way Joe Satriani uses feedback in his live shows. There is a deliberateness about it which is compositional...and musical (yeah, I'm making a judgement there).
I can appreciate WRMF for the questionable artistic statement that it represents, but if I had to listen to a whole side's worth of it I'd have to chisel my ears off.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:38 am
Posts: 150
Location: Germany
Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
Merzbow has considered Zappa as an influence:

http://wiki.killuglyradio.com/wiki/Merzbow

"I was influenced by Pierre Henry/Pierre Scheffer's 'A Symphony For A Lonely Man', 'The Chrome Plated Megaphone Of Destiny' from Mothers Of Invention's album 'We're Only In It For The Money', all songs in Frank Zappa's album 'Lumpy Gravy', and Iannis Xenakis's 'Persepolis'. My initial idea was to compose this kind of music in more 'punk rock' style."

Masami Akita has described Zappa as one of the few surrealist musicians who was "genuine". Even if it was still too musical for his taste. So I reckon "WRMF" may be one of the most compatible tracks in FZ' discography with Merzbow's artistic vision.


Merzbow even used to sample from Zappa records in his compositions!
http://www.discogs.com/Merzbow-Maschinenstil/release/92588

_________________
You have just destroyed one model XQJ-37 Nuclear Powered Pan-Sexual Roto-Plooker
And you're gonna have to pay for it!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 7:29 pm
Posts: 9569
zanti serenade from playground psychotics; synthesizer noises over feedback, or sythesized feedback noise? no percussion on this track, this has more of a cage influence than merzbow

some of that merzbow stuff - the frog album - is hard to take in large doses

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:55 am
Posts: 1192
slime.oofytv.set wrote:
[color=#000000]zanti serenade from playground psychotics; synthesizer noises over feedback, or sythesized feedback noise? no percussion on this track, this has more of a cage influence than merzbow



I had thought this cut was all Don Preston, but I see the PP album co-credits Preston, Underwood and FZ.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:07 am
Posts: 1520
Well there you are: if Zappa disliked the idea of ending shows with feedback, then in late 1971 he certainly bucked the trend by commencing the shows with noise/feedback. And why not, both of his keyboardists were playing then-new monophonic synthesisers, which had a reputation of going out of tune. So in order to make certain everything is working, why not make Don Preston and Ian Underwood twiddle their knobs a bit and then develop from there.

_________________
Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:41 am
Posts: 418
Location: Centerville, Norway
As I recall from the PP liner notes, the Zanti Serenade was simply an extended soundcheck posing as a track, possibly to grate the audience (which Zappa sometimes liked doing). Unfortunately the audience at the Rainbow Theatre didn't warm up to the teasing.

http://globalia.net/donlope/fz/songs/Zanti_Serenade.html

_________________
If I'm not alone... How long have I been asleep?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group