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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:21 pm 
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I've now seen ZPZ 7 times and I'm going to see him again in Madison in February. They are great, but I would definitely be willing to pay higher ticket prices if Dweezil brought Ruth and Jean Luc back into the mix. At the Capernicus center, they opened up with Gumbo and I couldn't help but think how amazing it would have been to hear Jean Luc's electronic violin in the correct parts. Ditto Ruth in all of the Roxy stuff.

What does erryone else think?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:59 pm 
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I think it would be great. I don't think either of them has any interest though.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:22 pm 
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alumni quotient agendas seem to be kisses like bright flags hung on human holidays, i don't think any given alumni quotient is going to raise jesus is just alright by me from the dead, this fan based alumni quotient agenda that i have read from time to time has little to do with zappa's artistic integrity as performed by zpz, it's about the compositions not the alumni...we are not going to get 100 or 150 alumni musicians or whatever it would take to perform all these specific arrangements in some alumni driven objective and even if we could get them together why don't we rise jesus from the dead while we are at it...i highly doubt some massive alumni effort would perform franks music night in and night out as good as zpz is doing today, it's about the compositions not the alumni... special guests as dweezil has stated is 'icing on the cake' , a special treat for the fans but zappa's compositions are all documented and this zpz core band delivers the goods, frank zappa's canon is about compositions not alumni... to each their own but from my perspective , frank's music is not about alumni quotient nostalgia, the only individuals fucking up are those with closed eggshell minds that spend more time chiseling away at internet diatribe than attending dzpzs shows where they could even perform a critical analysis of a full adventure on the progression of dzpz tainted in quotients of alumni ejectamenta be it if it was a frank zappa concert or a dzpz concert; as i have stated so many times i remember quite well hearing the many complaints of no ike willis because you were limited to how much you saw and how much is officially released where these all contain a level of performance that ike willis had nothing to do with and the zero alumni quotient is doing an amazing job these days ... the low special guest alumni quotient was against most fanatical desire and now two years later the average fan is well in tune with the core concept of what zpz is about as opposed to how these alumni quotient flag waving nostalgia is what is changing

when i heard dzpz perform any of the 12 new additions did i ever say where is ray white or where is ruth underwood, the band is so much better with ben thomas as a lead singer than ray white as a lead singer, that is not to say that any given modern rock group with any given alumni quotient, big band or something/anything of lots of what is out there is not fun but in respect to the composer that is not what his canon speaks of while some made it into the group at a given period of time that does not mean that any given alumni would even get consideration at other times; when projects from the last years are released the audio documents will reveal in far more detail what some in this community seemingly misses out in part because of the fanatical standards of alumni ejectameta or how the composer can no longer be here to create things of his own radiant design, somehow as zpz is now in only it's forth year of touring sans any alumni quotient whatsoever, i get a warm feeling when other zappa fans that had seen fz performances share the same sentiments as me that zpz is putting on one if not the finest performances of fzs music ever

and i have also witnessed and video taped live performances of joe's garage that had alumni ejectamenta in them in retrospect it just lacked so much of live performance standards, many fans still hold hope for certain alumni to be involved with zpz, one never knows if a joe's garage zpz project would open a window of opportunity...these fans that really love that there are so many groups that have a collective set list with varied not so zappa arrangements and a sprinkling of alumni quotients that may very well include a set of songs zpz has not performed in a way that reminds me of displaced greatfull dead fans at an allman brothers concert ; these type of changes in bands where fans were questioning where ike was in; i would n complain if ike was there but there was no need fro any complaints ... there was no reason to have a close mind to change because of an alumni missing quotient

zpz has shown through a diverse setlist including arrangements from so many different albums, fz touring bands and but also hybrid arrangements that they do the composers music with extreme due diligence that no other band regardless of alumni quotient has or will ever deliver; zpz digs deep into fzs canon more than some an alumni guest singer redefined the term lacking professional grit i look at zpz similarly today, while the yearning for alumni quotients of nostalgic proportions has subsided of late if he/she really thinks that jean luc ponty and ruth underwood are the so called real thing you should educate yourself on composition ... chef-boy-ar-dee, they do use some basic elements but the alumni quotient should not overshadow competency level of getting a live performancevto sound as good as it should... there is no reason to give them a pass because of some alumni quotient that alumni quotient just does not make the special sauce each composition needs i can understand fans enjoy the nostalgia, mediocrity and low budget feasibility of seeing some alumni quotient but i can also understand if my restaraunt made teh best raviolis in the world i woudl not want any business entity of mine associated in any way with chef boyardi in a can ... maybe more alumni is what is needed to get a rise from a certain fanatical perspective but zpz has and will continue to follow the model of the composers compositional dna why not be a support band for alumni solo music where you occasionally do some zappa material as part of the show; put alumni solo music ejectamenta on the road across america and the rest of god's grey earth, ike's material or any alumni ejectaenta they went on an ike parade like they were saving zappa's music but when it comes to fzs music no matter what the alumni quotient was band execution with a topping of alumni eectamenta

some of fans have there heads so far up an alumni quotient ass that they do not even know what the fuck is going on, practicing and performing for thousands of hours for over a decade ... i am sorry some are disappointed with the alumni quotient but no matter what zpz show i have seen i notice a strong representation of the composers work; more so than most if not all of fzs touring bands as time goes on thorough critical analysis can be done on zpz if and when more alumni should get involved, all that fawning alumni quotient ejectamenta should be good enough for at least ... far too many zappa fans were blinded by some form of alumni quotient flag waving nostalgia band mentality... alumni flag waving quotient bands will always have their pawns who want to argue the zpz band that has a 0% alumni quotient for that performance

folks i don't give a shit if you like me or not i stand for my opinions regardless of whatever forum member or alumni quotient is, for they can shovel the shit but they don't want to hear it especially when they become alumni quotient forum waving cheerleaders subconsciously or consciously you want to believe in your own mind that I think any given alumni is some second rate musician and you making that statement is propaganda to commentary of alumni

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:18 pm 
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Is that Trendy or slime?! :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:48 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
Is that Trendy or slime?! :mrgreen:


It's Slimemonger's Work in Progress, a masterpiece destined to take the place of Finnegans Wake in your mythology.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:35 am 
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In all honesty I don't think they are needed. DZ does a killer job recreating the SCH violin part in Gumbo and the Roxy stuff sounds great played by the 2 keyboardists. I give this band alot of credit for getting it right.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:01 am 
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To be honest, I didn't post this suggestion with the intention of getting a biblical retort, but I appreciate the intention....I guess. I also didn't post it to start an argument, however, it is important to me that I inform you all that I at no point in my post said Dweezil's team is not performing the parts well. Furthermore, I really don't care about the alumni coming back either, but it would be nice to have the xylophone and violin pieces back in the mix. At a minimum, I would like to see the saxophone parts be reduced and the guitar parts majorly increased. Obviously on songs like Gumbo, you're going to get quite a bit of sax, but other than that, do not be replacing guitar or violin pieces with sax.

I thank you all for your responses and no hard feelings on differences of opinion.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:15 am 
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Disco Boy wrote:
Is that Trendy or slime?! :mrgreen:


I call these folks "Experts" because they know everything about everything and then read something into a post that was never said. They also talk in very condescending tones and cannot make their point in a couple sentences - they need to write a book to try and prove their intelligence.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:26 am 
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The more alumni the better. Especially when it's Ruth and JLP, who are obviously in the upper echelon of side men/women, chops-wise. They would bring a fuller Zappa feel than shows without them.

I don't think they're interested either, especially JLP, who considers the Zappa years to be ancient history.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:36 am 
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The most recent Jeff Lorber album "Hacienda" has a phenomenal version of King Kong featuring Jean-Luc Ponty. Get it now!

http://www.amazon.com/Hacienda-Jeff-Lor ... B00EJ7JRLS


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:01 pm 
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@Muffin's Arf. You're obviously not that familiar with this site and that's not a problem by me. Most people can't be bothered explaining things to latecomers. Slime's post has nothing to do with your original post. It's an elaborate parody of one of the saddest characters that visits this site who posts vast quantities of psychobabble. Look up the member named Trendmonger, but I wouldn't waste too much time on that if I were you. Slime obviously has nothing better to do with his time.

I get where you're coming from in your original post. It'll probably never happen but it's a nice thought. The main problem with the performance of FZ's music these days is that he died. Mostly I think I've gotten over that, but every now and then I still get waves of intolerable sadness. What can you do?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:19 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
The main problem with the performance of FZ's music these days is that he died.


Exactly. Thank you for helping me feel less alienated.


For me it's all about Frank Zappa. And he's gone. His compositions need him present to truly bring forth their intangible magic.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:34 pm 
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So, Downer, what do you recommend? Nobody should play his music because he's the only one that can? Just keep going through the vault and releasing stuff? (I'm not disagreeing or asking sarcastically).

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:47 pm 
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I think any musician who loves Zappa should play his music. I own Ponty's King Kong, I think he did a good job. I'd love to see Ruth play his music. But not full time for a decade!

Do an annual tribute, a new arrangement, a new tribute album, cover a song or two, pay homage...BUT... once you become a full time Zappa clone it's all over.

Anyway.....
It's a con to claim that zpz are the only ones doing it "right". Most of that music was constantly evolving and was never nailed down by Frank, so what's right? To truly get Zappa "right" you would have to be original and create something new. Right?


If you sound like someone else you may as well be them. They're better at it than you.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:10 pm 
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Maybe he (or they) feel it's not an option anymore. Maybe he's happier than shit doing it or they think they need the publicity that it brings or the money. I don't know. Maybe I don't care as much anymore, which is probably the case.

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 Post subject: re: quotient
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:37 pm 
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slime.o.monger wrote:
... the zero alumni quotient is doing an amazing job these days ...

... 0% alumni quotient


a quotient of zero equals infinity ... infinite alumni

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:19 am 
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Why i am a Zappa fan? Because his music always change. He can have many styles in one song and more in an cd. years after years Frank has changed his musicians to add new sounds and to add different kind of music. So as a Zappa fan i was trained to receive new Zappa stuff as different stuff , not the same, upgraded etc... That's why i would prefer if ZPZ would make progress his compositions. I know Dweezil has to respect his dad compositions so thats why its not for me, its for new fans who discover this music. So when i go on youtube i like more watching groups that make covers with their own salt added. 8)

Edit:when i said ZPZ is not for me its because i saw them 3 times and i miss Frank but i liked to saw ZPZ sorry i was in a bad mood.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:57 am 
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Hey, thanks to everyone who responded to my thought, which was really a "Wish" and thus posted in the "Wish List". Although I would have loved to see Frank back in the day when he was doing Roxy, Zoot Allures, Apostrophe, et al, I am at least fortunate enough to see Dweezil do it - and he does do a great job with it. My main point was, I much rather hear the actual instruments being played as originally performed by JLP or Ruth than have it be piped through an electric piano, but again, that's just my taste.

Thanks for all of the clarifications as you are correct, I am new to this site and am not really familiar with those who post here. I have had such horrible experiences with people on sports forums which I now stand clear from.

Have a great weekend everyone!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:17 pm 
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no worries, muffin's arf, just fuckin with ya; as polydigm explained, search any line of text in my post - author as trendmonger; after a bit of razor-blade editing, my thesis strung together random bits of trendmonger posts taken from a wide variety of topics and going several years back

chop 'em up, string 'em back together in semi-random order, and the result is just as relevant, & makes as much sense as any of the original posts ... the trendmonger project/object


as for jlp, ruth etc., dweeze can't even afford ponty's per diem for a 30-day tour

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:44 am 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
I think any musician who loves Zappa should play his music. I own Ponty's King Kong, I think he did a good job. I'd love to see Ruth play his music. But not full time for a decade!

Do an annual tribute, a new arrangement, a new tribute album, cover a song or two, pay homage...BUT... once you become a full time Zappa clone it's all over.

Anyway.....
It's a con to claim that zpz are the only ones doing it "right". Most of that music was constantly evolving and was never nailed down by Frank, so what's right? To truly get Zappa "right" you would have to be original and create something new. Right?


If you sound like someone else you may as well be them. They're better at it than you.
Big DRIBBLE from a guy who said A Composer should get they hands dirty,though but a Guitarist should not be a Tech :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:04 am 
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cleon wrote:
Big DRIBBLE from a guy who said A Composer should get they hands dirty,though but a Guitarist should not be a Tech

I never said a guitarist should not be a tech. I said that you're a tech who wishes he could actually play guitar.

I never said a composer should get THEY hands dirty, either. My English is better than that.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:08 am 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
cleon wrote:
Big DRIBBLE from a guy who said A Composer should get they hands dirty,though but a Guitarist should not be a Tech

I never said a guitarist should not be a tech. I said that you're a tech who wishes he could actually play guitar.

I never said a composer should get THEY hands dirty, either. My English is better than that.

You think Jimi had a Tech did he need one :smoke:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:26 am 
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Cleon, I honestly don't know what you're trying to say half the time.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:38 am 
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Well it ain't confusing unless you think you know it all 8)
For a start i cant play guitar how would you know
especially when your got stuck up in me saying Pentatonic got semitones good scale though if you don't know the full Key scale hay it does THE COOL Bflat and run around with Natural scale
why say i cant type English for a word like They :smoke:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:58 am 
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slime.oofytv.set wrote:
no worries, muffin's arf, just fuckin with ya; as polydigm explained, search any line of text in my post - author as trendmonger; after a bit of razor-blade editing, my thesis strung together random bits of trendmonger posts taken from a wide variety of topics and going several years back

chop 'em up, string 'em back together in semi-random order, and the result is just as relevant, & makes as much sense as any of the original posts ... the trendmonger project/object


as for jlp, ruth etc., dweeze can't even afford ponty's per diem for a 30-day tour

slimemonger! That was a hilarious parody and now that I know how you did it, it makes perfect sense that trendy's posts would be interchangeable. Spot on man! :wink:
As for Zappa tribute groups the three I've heard and seen have been excellent with DZpZ being #1 and For The Love Of Frank and Pojama People tied for second. Now that Glen Leonards gone I wonder if there's even gonna be a PP, FZ tribute band anymore. I'll miss Ali playing the vibes and Glenn keeping the beat.
Anyway, they all can stand on there own playing FZ's works without any alumni action either. The alumni for me just add a little more Frank to the show. If you've never seen FZ you don't know what I'm talkin' about. If you have then you should get my point.

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