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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:25 am 
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thenoisydrum wrote:
The forthcoming UK premiere was mentioned on radio 4 this morning just before the 8 o'clock news 8)


Hear here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-24649949

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:29 am 
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The Idiot Bastard wrote:
thenoisydrum wrote:
The forthcoming UK premiere was mentioned on radio 4 this morning just before the 8 o'clock news 8)


Hear here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-24649949


Thanks very much TIB 8)

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:06 am 
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Last night's performance to be broadcast on BBC Radio 3 on 9 November: http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/cp2dck/hear-and-now--frank-zappas-200-motels

It was worth the wait! More at IBS here: http://www.idiotbastard.com/reviews.htm#TwoHundredMotels

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:04 am 
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thanks for the tip


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:44 pm 
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A very, very nice and significant Zappa happening! Listening to it, right now! Lucky present people!!!

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:23 am 
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With all the excitement of road tapes 2, let us not forget that this is airing tomorrow night on BBC radio 3 at at 10pm.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03h3kk5

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:14 pm 
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mistrijah wrote:
With all the excitement of road tapes 2, let us not forget that this is airing tomorrow night on BBC radio 3 at at 10pm.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03h3kk5


And will be available to 'listen again' via iPlayer for 7 days after.

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Zappa music and much, much MOO-AH!
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:00 pm 
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Thank you! I caught it in time to hear the last 30-40 minutes. It was fabulous!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:18 am 
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hot damn! Arkay, Arkay, Where are you? Need comparison commentary with the LA performance.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:19 am 
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Having jumped for joy while listening to BBC Radio 3 Here and Now "Frank Zappa 200 Motels", I was taken back by Ben Watson's post commentary. When he was asked if the London performance vindicated 200 Motels, if it were a masterpiece we should be hearing in concert halls more often, Ben replied "I think we should be seeing the film more often, quite honestly"

Well Ben Watson, you either get it or you don't. It's clear that you for one did not get it.

For a so called Zappalogist, Ben is vividly out to lunch.

While how frequently any so called masterpiece may grace it's way to concert halls will always be in question, it was clearly evident that "vindication", as to set free and deliver all that had been lost, that is what the program delivered. I am puzzled where some folks just do not get the whole "the orchestra will be doing more", and that the production was to stand and deliver the composers intent as much as possible.

While we could scrutinize how a character played his role, how any given orchestral component may have missed a mark, how London did not have all the stage regalia that happened in the LA Philharmonic performance, the overall production was light years ahead of what exists in the film. For anyone to think that the film is the go to project, well it should now be clear that the film is not only just what happened at that specific period of time, and but also, that it lacks so very much of what Frank had wanted and originally wrote in the score.

I'll conclude by saying that I am really looking forward to hearing the LA Philharmonic performance. That may very well be where an official release stems from. That may very well be a better overall production and achievement standard. An official release can not happen too soon, but then again who knows about how much work will have to go into getting the project done. The LSO should have taught us all some lessons on that. At this time, there is no sense getting all downtrodden on what missed the mark in this performance. What is clear is that some fans, some that are so-called aficionados, they have clearly missed the mark of having open eyes and ears towards the composers intent.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:54 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
Having jumped for joy while listening to BBC Radio 3 Here and Now "Frank Zappa 200 Motels", I was taken back by Ben Watson's post commentary. When he was asked if the London performance vindicated 200 Motels, if it were a masterpiece we should be hearing in concert halls more often, Ben replied "I think we should be seeing the film more often, quite honestly"

Well Ben Watson, you either get it or you don't. It's clear that you for one did not get it.

For a so called Zappalogist, Ben is vividly out to lunch.


Couldn't agree more, Trendy. Here's a little more of what Watson thought - as posted on my Facebook page in response to my review:

Where was the ROCK ("Magic Fingers")? Where was Jimmy Carl Black ("Lonesome Cowboy Burt"). Where was Larry the Dwarf fucking the lady with the harp? All bowdlerised. Replaced with that ZFT Frank-fawning that smells like the stuff they put in the toilet paper. This was (aspirant) classical repertoire peoples, and it's ... boring, unfocused, smug and devoid of spike. Most amazing moment was the standing ovation by the audience at the end, cut short by turning on the lights (the impresario’s secretary thought the ovation "went on too long"). The love of FZ music among the crowd was palpable, moving even, but GZ and the arts establishment are feeding us the decaffeinated version. Without an encore. Of course, this is what they did to Beethoven. McFadden was great, of course, but it's so expensive to employ such "talents". Zappa made talents out of nonentities. Motorhead Sherwod ffs! The only person with this skill today is (besides me, of course) Evil Dick - and Eugene Chadbourne. This gig was important, it shows up who really got Frank and who just wants the "stuff", however emasculated.

So clearly Gail, Joe Travers, Scott Thunes, Kurt Morgan...myself and the thousands who enjoyed both of the recent shows, don't get Zappa!

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:27 am 
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Isn't Watson's stock & trade being provocative? As he alluded to with the Beethoven aside, these arguments have been going on in the classical world forever. There are those that think Stravinsky softened Stravinsky in his later year conducting, those that think John Cage has been "New Age-ified," that Wagner's Anti-Semitism needs to get back in and inform the music, etc. Anyway, I love a good Art Riot Food Fight so Gawd Bless Ben!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:15 am 
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The Idiot Bastard wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
Having jumped for joy while listening to BBC Radio 3 Here and Now "Frank Zappa 200 Motels", I was taken back by Ben Watson's post commentary. When he was asked if the London performance vindicated 200 Motels, if it were a masterpiece we should be hearing in concert halls more often, Ben replied "I think we should be seeing the film more often, quite honestly"

Well Ben Watson, you either get it or you don't. It's clear that you for one did not get it.

For a so called Zappalogist, Ben is vividly out to lunch.


Couldn't agree more, Trendy.



I think that Gail, Joe, Kurt, Scott and the thousands that enjoyed the shows "Get It" a bit more than some may think. Remember I did state I was going to leave scrutinization of this London performance aside. Surly we could expect that if a fine-toothed-comb analysis was done by the scoremeister, that he would find some issues in the performance. We could even detect some character things that may not be perfect, but let's be clear, when it comes to Ben Watson and overt-fanatical-the-rock-band- is-missing views... pheeew, those overt views are out to lunch.

I am not talking about a fans or so called Zappalogist broad views of FZs overall cannon, but more-so, I am specifically talking about slanted views about this particular score. Fans with closed minds are missing something. The ZFT and their employees have clearly put pre-conceived notions to the side with this project. Some fans are caught in a movie-bubble.

As time goes on, I hope it is the score of the composer that has an opportunity to speak more than Ben Watson. We did get an opportunity to see FZ working from a bit of that in The True Story Of 200 Motels, but let it be known, FZs score has over 300 pages.

I've seen some reports that someone had obtained a copy of FZs shooting script for the movie, that was between 200 and 300 pages, some fans do talk a little bit of some of the details of that on the internet, but with all the hard work that went into getting the performance score ready, some folks may have read how that was assembled, with specific regards to the later, I think it would be prudent to put pre-conceived ideas of what the whole enchilada is to the side, and realise 200 Motels is a bit bigger and more orchestral than some had imagined from watching the movie, listening to the LPs or looking at some missing knowns from a shooting script. FZ gave enough clues in interviews and The Real Frank Zappa Book. I'll take the movie for what it is and I'll take this more-so in line with FZs vision.

The ZFT does employ a scoremeister. Just as Joe Travers has his job with all things vault related, Kurt Morgan has his job which is score related. As time goes on I hope many fans get the opportunity to hear more of how the scoremeister interacts with the guy with the wand and the stick. For Gail to employ that role, this is another example where Gail shows how much she cares. Lot's of time and money go into getting FZs scores together to where it can be done authentically. We can only hope that more and more orchestras will not only attempt FZs works, but do them with the composers intent.

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Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:09 pm 
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What is it people don't get? Their own taste?

Everyone "gets it". Not everyone is impressed.
I think Lonesome Cowboy Burt would have got drunk and passed out before the end. What does Miss Lucy think of all this? Is she still alive?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:31 pm 
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Trendmonger wrote:
Fans with closed minds are missing something.

True that! But I never thought that it should imply that open minds equal lack of independent opinions.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:00 am 
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HJ wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
Fans with closed minds are missing something.

True that! But I never thought that it should imply that open minds equal lack of independent opinions.


This won't take long, just a brief question and comment.

What's the name of the so called world leading Zappalogist, the one whose poinient meandering, poots forth with extreme misguiding opinions, and but also, casts dark shadows on the composers intent, larger than that of Rock & Roll Interviewers with all the Yyyeeenntzzzt and light bulbs going off?

Independent opinions have nothing to do with what the composer wrote. That guy is just sending people down the wrong path. If anyone likes it fine, if anyone has a bunch of crap to state or not understand the music, that's their problem. I'm clueless why he is considered a Zappalogist. By his own commentary he not only shows he does not understand, but that he thinks it is Frank's intent to leave the listener wondering if they understand the intent. He clearly does not get it. I sincerely hope his name and commentary gets lost in a killer fog. It's as if he's stealing the intent.

The final word is that of the composer. The score and performance speaks for the composers intent.

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:44 am 
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It speaks for an interpretation of the composers intent. Because from what i understand it is not a finite work. And Frank Zappa is dead. So that is what it is. So, Mr Watson has a point. I also have a valid point in calling him an ungrateful crybaby.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:36 am 
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(disclaimer: was not able to resurrect my old forum account(kickMe) so created a new one)

I think Ben was disappointed because the performce did not include some of his favourite part of the movie (things that made the movie special to him).
BUT to say "I think we should be seeing the film more often, quite honestly" is a bit strange indeed....

Anyone who has seen the movie lately can see (or better hear) for themselves that the movie's picture and sound quality is not very great. Given that the
source material for the movie (tapes) got destroyed I think we are kind of "out of luck" to see it improved anytime soon. For me (personally) Zappa's music
is more important than "Zappa the movie maker" (although I enjoy watching 200 Motels a lot) so I just want to add some more comments regarding the music.
As I mentioned the sound quality on the VHS/DVD is very poor (in my opinion) and although the CD recording is better I don't think it is the best possible performance/recording
of 200 Motels music either ...

Now given in addition that the CD is out of print and the VHS/DVD sound quality is poor i really think the statement "I think we should be seeing the film more often, quite honestly" is not a very
good one ... We probably have now thanx to BBC radio3 a recording of a performance of a highly motivated orchestra (= I cant imagine the original orchestra that performed on the movie was
that motivated, after reading all the stories about them ... ) performing some of the orchestral parts of 200 Motels ... sure it's not without any mistakes BUT from a sound quality/music standpoint :

"We definitely should here this more often , quite honestly"

So lets hope this gets performed more and more .. seeing hightly motivated ~160 musicians on the stage peforming Zappa's orchestral pieces is something to be seen and heared.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:43 pm 
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Why do people even read what Watson writes, after i read The Negative Dialectics of Poodle Play all those years ago i promised myself to never read another word that man wrote, He has a knack of writing nothing but making it look as though he wrote something deep, i wipe my ass with his words...

i really do not like the way that man writes...

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:52 pm 
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the idiot bastard wrote:
thenoisydrum wrote:
The forthcoming UK premiere was mentioned on radio 4 this morning just before the 8 o'clock news 8)
Hear here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-24649949

wowie zowie :shock: thanks for the link, listened to the complete 2-hour stream last night, it's a knockout ... the vocal parts were very well executed, the mark & howie buffoonery was given a unique uk spin

loved penis dimension & the grande finale

if you listen to watson's entire rant before & after the performance, he doesn't slam the music or the performance, he makes some good points by disagreeing with the decision to cut parts of the score/script out that he considers critical, so the movie 200 motels is the only version true to zappa's original intent ... zappa would never approve a decaffeinated version

don't kid yerself, watson gets it

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:22 am 
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slime.oofytv.set wrote:
the idiot bastard wrote:
thenoisydrum wrote:
The forthcoming UK premiere was mentioned on radio 4 this morning just before the 8 o'clock news 8)
Hear here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-24649949



if you listen to watson's entire rant before & after the performance, he doesn't slam the music or the performance, he makes some good points by disagreeing with the decision to cut parts of the score/script out that he considers critical, so the movie 200 motels is the only version true to zappa's original intent ... zappa would never approve a decaffeinated version

don't kid yerself, watson gets it


Watson's so called rant, and but also, your analysis clearly shows that there are folks that do not understand FZs intent. What appears in the film is not Frank's whole enchilada. Nor was the film his intent when he scored 200 Motels. I expect that a forthcoming official release will include some detailed liner notes that would help those that are clearly misguided by the film, and but also, have their illusions falsely confirmed by misguiding commentary by a so-called Zappalogist .

Now as far as that so-called Zappalogists misguiding commentary. While he at times certainly shows some detailed knowledge of FZs canon, with this particular score, he is far too much into thinking of The Legend Of Cleetus Awreetus-Awrightus & the Grand Wazoo sprinkled in with the 200 Motels film and soundtrack.

Folks need to step outside their pre-conceived awareness of the movie. It goes beyond FZs shooting script for the film. In regards to FZs score for 200 Motels. I've been fortunate to have a few conversations with the scoremeister recently. Long before these conversations I was talking about "the orchestra doing more". While GZ surely gave us a clue of that in promotional interviews, Frank Zappa himself gave us all the clues a very long time ago. One has to go back to 200 Motels Contempo 70'. April of 1970 was long before the film. Frank never wanted a rock band to be a part of 200 Motels Contempo 70, it was the LA Phil that wanted it to push seat sales.

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:47 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
HJ wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
Fans with closed minds are missing something.

True that! But I never thought that it should imply that open minds equal lack of independent opinions.


This won't take long, just a brief question and comment.

What's the name of the so called world leading Zappalogist, the one whose poinient meandering, poots forth with extreme misguiding opinions, and but also, casts dark shadows on the composers intent, larger than that of Rock & Roll Interviewers with all the Yyyeeenntzzzt and light bulbs going off?

Independent opinions have nothing to do with what the composer wrote. That guy is just sending people down the wrong path. If anyone likes it fine, if anyone has a bunch of crap to state or not understand the music, that's their problem. I'm clueless why he is considered a Zappalogist. By his own commentary he not only shows he does not understand, but that he thinks it is Frank's intent to leave the listener wondering if they understand the intent. He clearly does not get it. I sincerely hope his name and commentary gets lost in a killer fog. It's as if he's stealing the intent.

The final word is that of the composer. The score and performance speaks for the composers intent.

Answer: I have no idea
RE the comment: I cannot understand most of it. The part about "he thinks it is Frank's intent to leave the listener wondering if they understand the intent" is particularly hard to get. As for "The score and performance speaks for the composers intent.", are you sure you mean that? If any random collection of performers, say, the Grandmothers, did a performance of a score, would that speak for Frank's intent?

I do agree though that a score gives a pretty good indication of a composer's intent! :-)

Oh, and your "Independent opinions have nothing to do with what the composer wrote" is unrelated to anything I said. I just said that having an open mind should not preclude you from having your own opinion. And Ben Watson can think whatever he wants about a given performance of Frank Zappa's work. So can you. You apparently just reason as follows: "open mind" = "understanding Frank's intent" = "excellent". I put different meaning into the concept of an "open mind".

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:35 am 
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>I cannot understand most of it. The part about"he thinks it is Frank's intent to leave the listener wondering if they understand the intent"

I think this relates to Ben's comment (at the beginning of the radio broadcast) that Frank Zappa likes to keep his listeners "un-reassured" about what they are listening too ... not sure if that is any clearer
or makes more "sense" this way but those were Ben's comment(s).


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:29 am 
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Some may have noticed that the What's New Page announced that Gail Zappa & Joe Travers are scheduled for Q&A at separate 200 Motels and Uncle Meat Screenings in Los Angeles.

14 & 21 November 2013
A screening of 200 Motels will take place on 14 November 2103 at 7:00PM in the Ray Stark Family Theatre, SCA 108, in the lobby of the George Lucas Building, USC School of Cinematic Arts Complex, 900 W. 34th Street, Los Angeles. Q&A to follow with Gail Zappa and Joe Travers.

A screening of Uncle Meat will take place on 21 November 2103 at 7:00PM in the Ray Stark Family Theatre, SCA 108, in the lobby of the George Lucas Building, USC School of Cinematic Arts Complex, 900 W. 34th Street, Los Angeles. Q&A to follow with Gail Zappa and Joe Travers


So if anyone has any questions regarding the SCORE of 200 Motels, or anything about Uncle Meat this is a fine opportunity to get them in there.....

and but also, back to the UK Premiere topic.

Here is GZs commentary from the BBC3 Hear and Now program Frank Zappa's 200 Motels

"I am very pleased to have this version of 200 Motels at long last available, and for it to be in Enlgland where it was always intended to be presented, and because the score exists, we just had a premiere in Los Angeles, my children, they finally at long last get to hear their father's music. I am sorry that Frank wasn't here to hear it, but this is what we get, and I hope that everybody has a great time tonight".- Gail Zappa

As you can see THE SCORE exists.

When thinking of the score it is clear that there is a distinction of the 13 Suites Score and the Film Shooting Script. Folks that want to over-indulge in pondering what exists in the film, and but also, the shooting script things that never made it into the film, well the differences are not only obvious but why even bother questioning yourself why Lonesome Cowboy Burt and Magic Fingers are not part of the 13 Suites representation any more than 30 minutes of The Red Throbber was not included in the 13 suites.

This version of 200 Motels is The 13 Suites. It's clear that FZ wrote these suites to be presented in a Classical manner. By Franks own words, one can read the Real Frank Zappa book, we can see that these suites are closest to his original intent. Sans rock band was what FZ had wanted. The characterisations evolved to become a part of that, but all the so-called rock things that made it into the move, and did not make it into the movie, well that's a different version that became and did not become reality. The shooting script for the film, and the film itself, are different project designs.

This is not to say that there will never be a different version of 200 Motels. One that may possibly include all those rock numbers, and but also, The Red Throbber with animation, but let's be serious folks, what we now have is a long awaited reality. I had a great time listening to the broadcast! Can't wait for an official release, until then, thank the goodness of good will, where a program like Audacity allows me to edit out the so-called Zappalogist commentary.... I too am very sorry that Frank could not be here to hear this event.

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:47 pm 
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Too bad the first event was not posted on here until after it actually happened.

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