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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:17 pm 
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Ronny's Noomies wrote:
My point remains that the ACA has been in effect for 6 weeks and people like Pedro think they know exactly how it will go and how horrible it will be for all of us, by cherry picking quotes from right-wing radio or the internet. That's just not possible yet.


My point was an old signature here on the forum >

' Show me a government run program that works at , or below it's allocated budget , and I'll show you Hell freezing over. '

Ronny's Noomies wrote:
And the fact remains that what we had before the ACA was terrible health care coverage by any standard, which was harmful to the country.


And that is just your opinion and left wing talking points.

Ronny , do you know the profit margins of insurance companies vs phara companies and hospitals for profit ?

You might be surprised at what really makes health care costs go up.


http://www.ehow.com/info_7742145_forpro ... profit-hos

http://www.cato.org/publications/commen ... ms-profits

http://www.who.int/trade/glossary/story073/en/


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:46 pm 
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Ya all are just like a stuck Fox News trailer, the plans is proven to work (i.e Mass), also it is the Republican Plan, the dems compromised (they would have gone single payer) and met the reps with the plan designed by Heritage foundation...the only reason any white people are complaining (or white wanna bee's) is because it was passed under president Blacky McBlackmans watch... :smoke:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:45 pm 
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Plook wrote:
Ya all are just like a stuck Fox News trailer, the plans is proven to work (i.e Mass), also it is the Republican Plan, the dems compromised (they would have gone single payer) and met the reps with the plan designed by Heritage foundation...the only reason any white people are complaining (or white wanna bee's) is because it was passed under president Blacky McBlackmans watch... :smoke:



Plook , you keep telling us that the ACA is just like RomneyCare and that's only partially true.
You say the Dems compromised when Reps weren't even brought into the conversation.
Had they been invited , there probably would have been a few who would have voted for it. ( remember , both houses were controlled by the Dems and the Rep votes weren't even needed. )
As for you're racial rant , it sounds like something Al Sharpton would say.
Kinda confused on that one , Plook :?


Under the Mass law , voters have a chance to change and amend things that do or don't work in the law.

Under Obamacare , NO voters can challange the law.

Under Obamacare , taxes will rise between 500 & 750 Billion dollars.

In Mass , no new taxes were raised.

Under Obamacare , there are 500 Billion in cuts to Medicare.

In Mass there were NO cuts for our seniors.

Romneycare has shown no ill effects on the employment numbers in that state.

30 hours is considered full time and has definitely had an impact on the country economically. Please do tell me about the low unemployment rate. A part time job is not full time employment and should not be considered or counted as one. Think GDP.

Yes , there are many similarities but it comes down to this really.
Does it help or hurt people ?
I would say that the people it really helps , are the ones that tell you that they did it for you because they care.
The one's that it hurts are those who will have to skip buying healthy foods or a decent car ( Cash for Clunkers - Whata deal ) , so they can pay for over inflated mandated insurance.
:wink:

http://bellpolicy.org/content/straight- ... mass-model


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:50 pm 
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Here's my point, redux. It remains to be seen how well the ACA will work. It's just too soon to tell. But off the top of my head, I came up with the following FACTS about what Obamacare is mandated to cover that IS NOT covered by our current, crappy system:

No denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions.

No annual or lifetime limits on healthcare.

Women's health services covered.

Insurance companies can't bail on you when you get sick.

Right to appeal bone-headed insurance company decisions.

Kids can stay on their parent's plan until age 26.

Mandate to cover emergency room care, prescription drugs, and maternity care.

Preventative services at no-out-of pocket costs.

You can't be dropped or charged more based on health status or gender.

I just don't understand this longing to keep crappy health care coverage.....

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:12 pm 
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Ronny's Noomies wrote:
Here's my point, redux. It remains to be seen how well the ACA will work. It's just too soon to tell. But off the top of my head, I came up with the following FACTS about what Obamacare is mandated to cover that IS NOT covered by our current, crappy system:

No denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions.

No annual or lifetime limits on healthcare.

Women's health services covered.

Insurance companies can't bail on you when you get sick.

Right to appeal bone-headed insurance company decisions.

Kids can stay on their parent's plan until age 26.

Mandate to cover emergency room care, prescription drugs, and maternity care.

Preventative services at no-out-of pocket costs.

You can't be dropped or charged more based on health status or gender.

I just don't understand this longing to keep crappy health care coverage.....

You are right, they are wrong!!!
Scared ya didn't I? :wink:
I suppose there will be hold outs, but I agree, it's good for the whole and therefor a good thing.
Come on y'all! How many of us have come out of a concert bitchin' about the price as we step over people sleeping in the street/doorways and act like they're not there!!!??? :roll:
Give people a chance! 8)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:29 am 
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pedro2 wrote:
BBP wrote:
You have simply very little understanding of how other countries work. Pretty much everybody has that.


Wow :shock:

I didn't realize you were so ' worldly '. Maybe you really should spend a little time reading some facts and figures instead of stating your ' knowledgeable ' opinion.

You have no idea of my past or where I come from and your reply is quite condescending and inaccurate at best.


You're such an ignorant pig, Pedro. BBP gave a very interesting take on the issue as viewed in a global perspective. Sure, it wasn't filled with stats and links to a host of ratbag websites, but it was definitely valid and understood by others here as being relevant to the issue. We foreign trash don't always know the details of how your system works, but we get the vibe of the thing. We can tell when The Great Society isn't quite living up to that ideal when compared to others...none of which are perfect of course.

You completely misread her reasonable responses to you. There was no condescension on her part but a whole lot on yours.
So "worldly" is something to be sneered at now? Surely you realise we now live in a global community and a global economy. The rest of the world can have opinions on what's going on over there. Have you travelled outside the USA? If not, it's a great experience, and I'd recommend it...just as I found travelling your country was one of the best experiences I've had. If you have, then you didn't take much in.

Ronnies has the right idea...give it time to settle down and function normally...suck it and see...

It might just end up the best system for all, rather than the few.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:27 am 
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Isn't mental illness to be covered as well? Everyone posting here should be thrilled, we will all make out like bandits!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:11 am 
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KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
You are right, they are wrong!!!
Scared ya didn't I? :wink:

Give people a chance! 8)

I wasn't scared and I agree !

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:10 am 
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Man fatally shoots 3 bandmates, himself after being kicked out of group, police say
Published November 11, 2013 FoxNews.com

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A man who apparently had been kicked out of a band fatally shot three of his bandmates and himself early Monday in Brooklyn, according to police, in what law enforcement sources say was a dispute over stolen cash.

The victims' identities are being withheld pending family notification, but sources told the New York Post that the group was The Yellow Dogs, Iranian-American rockers who came to the U.S. in 2011 to seek asylum.

“[The shooter] stole money and possibly equipment, and he didn’t live up to his end of the bargain,” a law enforcement source told the newspaper.

“He said something like ‘Why did you bring me over here [from Iran] and then throw me out?’” another source said.

Police said officers responded early Monday after receiving a 911 call about shots fired inside a three-story building in an East Williamsburg industrial park.

On the second floor, police said they found a 27-year-old man with a gunshot wound to the chest. A 35-year-old man was found with a gunshot wound to the head on the third floor. Another man was found on the same floor, fatally shot in the head; his age was not immediately known.

The shooter was discovered on the roof with a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head, police said. A rifle was found next to his body.

Another bandmate was wounded in the arm. The 22-year-old was hospitalized in stable condition, police said.

On their Facebook page, The Yellow Dogs describe themselves as a “psychedelic/Dance post Punk” group.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:37 am 
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There's an opening for an Iranian post-punk band in Brooklyn. :twisted:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:29 pm 
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KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
There's an opening for an Iranian post-punk band in Brooklyn. :twisted:



Its a shot in the dark but go for it... :mrgreen:

Zzziiinnnggg... :smoke:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:16 pm 
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Uncle Bernie wrote:
You're such an ignorant pig, Pedro


Is name calling a prerequisite in your part of the world for debates , or have you worked at it ?
Is it something you were taught in schools there ??


Uncle Bernie wrote:
BBP gave a very interesting take on the issue as viewed in a global perspective. Sure, it wasn't filled with stats and links to a host of ratbag websites, but it was definitely valid and understood by others here as being relevant to the issue. We foreign trash don't always know the details of how your system works, but we get the vibe of the thing. We can tell when The Great Society isn't quite living up to that ideal when compared to others...none of which are perfect of course.


When people express opinions as fact , and don't like to be called on it , they probably shouldn't speak at all , and if you think LBJ's Great Society was a workable program , I would suggest you do a little more research.

Uncle Bernie wrote:
You completely misread her reasonable responses to you. There was no condescension on her part but a whole lot on yours.


I apologize if I hurt her feelings .

Uncle Bernie wrote:
So "worldly" is something to be sneered at now?


I would guess it's almost about the same as sneering at the part of the world that is called America. You seem to have a sneer factor about the USA yourself Bernie . Maybe you could answer your own question.



Uncle Bernie wrote:
Have you travelled outside the USA?


Yes , I have.

Uncle Bernie wrote:
Ronnies has the right idea...give it time to settle down and function normally...suck it and see...

It might just end up the best system for all, rather than the few.


In my opinion , which, around spoon fed left leaning people that I often see here , doesn't really count for much , but here it is.

Which came first ?

The exorbitant bill from the health care facility or the insurance company ?

Think about that the next time you ask your insurer to pay 3000.00 to a doctor , who doesn't even know your name , for 15 minutes of his precious time.

I am all for affordable health care , but anybody who thinks it's free would do well to take the offer of mental health treatments in the ACA.

What's that old , old saying ? Oh yeah >

No government can give you anything that wasn't taken from someone else.

:wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:57 pm 
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pedro2 wrote:
Uncle Bernie wrote:
You're such an ignorant pig, Pedro


Is name calling a prerequisite in your part of the world for debates , or have you worked at it ?
Is it something you were taught in schools there ??


Uncle Bernie wrote:
BBP gave a very interesting take on the issue as viewed in a global perspective. Sure, it wasn't filled with stats and links to a host of ratbag websites, but it was definitely valid and understood by others here as being relevant to the issue. We foreign trash don't always know the details of how your system works, but we get the vibe of the thing. We can tell when The Great Society isn't quite living up to that ideal when compared to others...none of which are perfect of course.


When people express opinions as fact , and don't like to be called on it , they probably shouldn't speak at all , and if you think LBJ's Great Society was a workable program , I would suggest you do a little more research.

Uncle Bernie wrote:
You completely misread her reasonable responses to you. There was no condescension on her part but a whole lot on yours.


I apologize if I hurt her feelings .

Uncle Bernie wrote:
So "worldly" is something to be sneered at now?


I would guess it's almost about the same as sneering at the part of the world that is called America. You seem to have a sneer factor about the USA yourself Bernie . Maybe you could answer your own question.



Uncle Bernie wrote:
Have you travelled outside the USA?


Yes , I have.

Uncle Bernie wrote:
Ronnies has the right idea...give it time to settle down and function normally...suck it and see...

It might just end up the best system for all, rather than the few.


In my opinion , which, around spoon fed left leaning people that I often see here , doesn't really count for much , but here it is.

Which came first ?

The exorbitant bill from the health care facility or the insurance company ?

Think about that the next time you ask your insurer to pay 3000.00 to a doctor , who doesn't even know your name , for 15 minutes of his precious time.

I am all for affordable health care , but anybody who thinks it's free would do well to take the offer of mental health treatments in the ACA.

What's that old , old saying ? Oh yeah >

No government can give you anything that wasn't taken from someone else.

:wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:13 pm 
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Pedro, you appear to be fixated on heath care costs. You appear to believe that you are the only one around here who thinks we're being pooched by health care providers. I, for one, completely agree that costs are astronomical, and integral to our dreadful insurance situation.

So, can we agree that health costs are out of control, need to be addressed, and move on?

I also believe that insurance companies are also plooking us; not sure if you believe that though. You appear to like the insurance companies for some weird reason, even though they have ruined families, let people with major life threatening conditions languish and/or die, etc., etc.

Show me how the insurance standards required by Obama care, which I listed a couple of posts above, are NOT a significant, life saving improvement over our current horrible state of insurance affairs. If the ACA settles down, which most sane people see as a good thing, won't that be better for policy holders than the old system? If it turns out to have more problems or even turns out to be a bust - we can't tell yet - won't it still be better than leaving our life savings at the insurance company's doorstep if we get sick and dropped?

I'm advocated a pretty centrist, common sense view of things, don't you think?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:36 pm 
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brainpang wrote:
DOUCHE!


Yet another ad hominem.

I've noticed that the left are very good at that, especially in this thread...

pedro2 wrote:
' Show me a government run program that works at , or below it's allocated budget , and I'll show you Hell freezing over. '


That pretty much sums it up. There are no truer words, are there? And people wonder why the US is nearly $17 trillion in debt AND on the verge of a depression (and so is much of the world).

People who think Obamacare (medical care by FORCE and NOT by choice - which is one of the most evil policies I can think of) will work (for reasons already stated countless times by many here), are either extremely ignorant economically and/or generally...

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:44 pm 
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KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
There's an opening for an Iranian post-punk band in Brooklyn. :twisted:

Damn! The Yellow Dogs were one of my favorite Iranian post-punk bands.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:06 am 
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Disco Boy wrote:
brainpang wrote:
DOUCHE!


Yet another ad hominem.

I've noticed that the left are very good at that, especially in this thread...



I am just making fun of your chosen word to stress exclamation. Using it makes you look like an ass.
If it was used in agreement with something I said my reaction would be the same.
It implies that you are the Master and holding all the chits.
You are not.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:31 am 
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Attempting to provide health care coverage for as many Americans as possible is an "evil policy?"

Holy crap.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:21 am 
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No just the obama bill was written with so many unforeseen consequences that it should be amended or rewritten , Just today Bill Clinton called for the federal government to change the law as pertains to keeping what you have. So all you saying this thing is so great......... by the way rn what income are you claiming, to get your so called good deal, and what is the deductible an co-pay . just remember all the part timers get NO obama care! How many million is that?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:56 am 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
No just the obama bill was written with so many unforeseen consequences that it should be amended or rewritten , Just today Bill Clinton called for the federal government to change the law as pertains to keeping what you have. So all you saying this thing is so great......... by the way rn what income are you claiming, to get your so called good deal, and what is the deductible an co-pay . just remember all the part timers get NO obama care! How many million is that?

Well, I didn't say I got a good deal, did I? What I said was my policy with Blue Cross got terminated, which is what everyone is in such a tizzy about. Like a normal non-rabid person, I simply went to the Obama care site and picked a plan that was roughly the same as what I had before it was terminated, for a bit more or a bit less cost-wise, depending on what we settle on in the end. So, for about the same money, more or less, my family is covered but now has all the additional features I listed in another post. Such as no pre-existing conditions, my 18 y.o. son can stay on the family insurance till he's 26, and all that other good stuff I didn't have before.

Example: my wife has needed ankle surgery for about 5 years and it's been a struggle for her. Blue Cross wouldn't pay for it because she had a pre-existing condition (she blew out her ankle). Now she'll get the surgery she needs and after she meets the deductable, it'll be covered by the Obama care plan.

If everyone calms down and let's the new system work and get repaired, we will then see how it comes out. Some people will pay more. We thought we would be in that category but we aren't in the end. Other people will pay the same or less. BUT ANYONE WHO WANTS TO KEEP THEIR OLD CRAPPY POLICIES INSTEAD OF UPGRADING AIN'T WRAPPED TIGHT. In my opinion anyway. Talk about low-information people!

Admittedly, the roll-out completely sucked and still sucks. But how can we know anything reliable in the 6 weeks the plan has been up?

BTW, we had and will have a 5K deductable. We are considering an option for a 10K deductable, but we're not sure we can swing that.

I ain't telling you our income. :)

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Everytime we picked a booger we'd flip it on this one winduh. Every night we'd contribute, 2, 3, 4 boogers. We had to use a putty knife, man, to get them damn things off the winduh. There was some goober ones that weren't even hard...


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:09 pm 
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KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
You are right, they are wrong!!!


THESE ARGUMENTS CANNOT BE BROKEN!!!! :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:42 pm 
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Ronny's Noomies wrote:
KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
You are right, they are wrong!!!


THESE ARGUMENTS CANNOT BE BROKEN!!!! :wink:



You can't handle the argument... :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:31 pm 
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The Philippines president has lowered the typhoon casualty estimate to 2000 to 2500 people.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:49 pm 
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BBP wrote:
The Philippines president has lowered the typhoon casualty estimate to 2000 to 2500 people.

That's good news for the California Philippine community.(1.5mil) At first they feared over 10,000 had perished.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:04 pm 
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Ronny , I am all for affordable health care in this country and the world. I just think that Obama and his ilk have it backwards.

A little history. About 15 years ago my wife had a mechanical heart valve put in. I asked the doctors what would be a scenario if she didn't have it replaced. I was told that within 10 years , my wife's heart would enlarge to the point where it would never return to it's original size or operation again even with medicine or a transplant. Death would come pretty quick after that. Pretty dire , eh ? I talked with my insurance company and was told that the heart valve replacement would be an elective surgery as she was not brought into the emergency room on a stretcher or at the stage of imminent death. Total cost of her operation was 101,000.00 and my coverage would cover 58% or almost 59,000.00.

The operation was a success and the survival rate is almost 97% for the 1st ten years. Since then I have met 3 other people whose spouses have had the same operation and each one of them woke up one morning while their spouse did not.

I continue to count my blessings.

We paid the insurance company about 7000.00 immediately ( all we had ) and have been paying roughly 50.00 a month since then figuring they could never repo the valve and as long as we were paying something , we were ok.

We were and still are.

Fast forward about 5 yrs. I changed jobs , got new insurance and my wife finally went to work for a company after running her own day care in our house up until that time.

She was able to get insurance through her new job and the idea that she had a pre-existing condition was not a negative at all. They were happy to insure her with VERY affordable rates that she still enjoys.My plan at my work just rose 21% to 109.87 a week just for me.

My indignation is not with the insurance company as it is with the hospital itself. Not the doctors or the well trained RN's that helped us , but with the ' add ons ' that this hospital for profit charged. I won't go into details as anyone who has been in the hospital already knows what I'm talking about.

Back to the ACA . If this was such a good deal , why are the ones that wrote it so bashful in signing up ?
Why did more than 1000 companies apply for exemption status and why did 700 get it while others didn't ?
Why would an administration purposely create standards that they knew could not be met by the insurance companies at the same costs to the insured ?
Why would this administration not come clean with ALL the details of this law ?
There are a multitude of unanswered questions but my biggest one is how so many people could be bamboozled by this guy and his cronies.

I believe in the open market especially when it comes to health care. Look at Lazic surgery as one example. 10 years ago on your insurance plan that would have cost almost 9000.00 for both eyes. Today without insurance you can get it done for around 1100.00 or even less. Why ? Competition .

Had insurance companies worked for those the had insured , they would have gone to battle with some of these outrageous charges from a hospital for profit and gotten them reduced. Sadly , they were thinking with their wallets as well and prices started rising because (a) the insurance companies would pay until the insured was dropped and (b) the hospitals knew they could charge anything they wanted to because they knew they would get paid. The beginnings of the ' scratch my back ' policy in health care.

Here's my problem . The money is still going round and round into the same hands but now it's on the backs of the American worker ( not many of us left ) and getting worse.

With all the money this government wastes , we could probably put federally operated hospitals in every major and minor city in this country at no additional cost to the taxpayer. In it , you would staff if with government paid employees much like the public school systems in this country.

Would the care be great and fantastic ? Depends on how well you think the schools are but these hospitals would be free to the general public just as the free public education system is.

Want something better at a better facility ? That's where the insurance companies come in. YOU get to pick the option and every citizen in this country would probably get more bang for their taxes.

So , yeah , I have nothing against health care for all . I applaud it but the way the DEMS ONLY have pushed this through is , in my mind , ill conceived and probably illegal. If you get the chance , read the bill and get ready to be shocked at all the new laws in it that have nothing to do with ' health ' but a lot to do with ' revenue '.

Sorry for the long rant.

8)


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