Zappa.com

The Official Frank Zappa Messageboards
It is currently Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:17 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 104 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:07 am
Posts: 1584
Aww, y're so charming in your efforts to appear as the tough guy of the forum. :lol: :mrgreen:

_________________
Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 6:16 am
Posts: 779
Location: Royal Wootton Bassett
Lets play nice kids. We all know who our common enemy is.

Do you think the ZFT just don't like other tribute bands as they don't make any money from them?

They own the rights but as stated, you can cover music on disc and pay royalties and perform it live in a licensed venue, belongs that is happening no law is broken.

_________________
Image

Trendmonger wrote:
...and but also


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:28 pm
Posts: 2208
jaypfunk wrote:
and furthermore... the reason i SIDE with the ZFT on this issue all along is because they own the fucking music and the rights to it. it's really pretty simple. Andre wanted soooooo badly to be part of it and he was rejected. GET OVER IT DUDE! end of fucking story.

Shut up you stupid Trendmonger lapdog asslicking son of a cocksucking mother who has no idea who you father is asshole son of a bitch. Being related to a famous person does not allow anyone (I'm talking about Gail and Dweezil here) the right to be an arrogant, wrong-headed and legally ignorant asshole. And why a great original artist like Adrian Belew would ever feel compelled to Kow Tow to a tribute band leader like Dweezil is beyond me. I think he's probably just too nice of a guy. As for you jaypfunk you assmunching douchebag (just speaking to you in your own language that you 've been polluting this website with for years), I'm sorry you're an over-the-hill piece of crap who only has the Roxy DVD to look forward to in your miserable life. Go suck on a tailpipe you bullying piece of rat excrement.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:28 pm
Posts: 2208
NuclearProstate wrote:
Lets play nice kids. We all know who our common enemy is.
I
Do you think the ZFT just don't like other tribute bands as they don't make any money from them?

They own the rights but as stated, you can cover music on disc and pay royalties and perform it live in a licensed venue, belongs that is happening no law is broken.

I'm not really sure of the common enemy you're speaking of. I'm sure as hell not a part of any collective. I'm not really sure of Gail's (the ZFT's) motivation because it's just so bizarre and has no legal grounding (which she has proven herself with her failed lawsuits). Tribute bands are big business these days and while I give ZPZ and Dweezil credit for doing such a good job, in theory they are no different than Project/Object or that Eagles Tribute band playing at your local bar this weekend.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:30 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:48 pm
Posts: 20823
Location: Somewhere in time
BBP wrote:
They've both been nice to me in person but that's because I have sizable assets.


With all due respect Bonny your over rating the effect breasts have on men, unless your normal interaction is with some inmature boys and under valuing yourself as a person... :smoke:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:28 pm
Posts: 2208
Plook wrote:
BBP wrote:
They've both been nice to me in person but that's because I have sizable assets.


With all due respect Bonny your over rating the effect breasts have on men, unless your normal interaction is with some inmature boys and under valuing yourself as a person... :smoke:

I agree. Nobody cares about your tits, Bonny.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:03 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:57 pm
Posts: 760
Location: Atlanta
They're wrong. I do.

_________________
“The power of pop music to corrupt and putrify the minds of world youth are virtually limitless."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:45 am
Posts: 9587
Location: EINDHOVEN
So speak the men who've never seen my assets. I can't wear cleavage because it makes my voice echo.

_________________
Image
Join the PackardGoose forum! Send me a PM!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:01 am
Posts: 1280
Location: Bordeaux, France
BBP wrote:
So speak the men who've never seen my assets. I can't wear cleavage because it makes my voice echo.


:mrgreen: Good one BBP! I can use that one at the local bar....as in "Whoa! Check her out! With those tits I bet her voice echos when she speaks!"

ps: I think your breast are wonderful! Just like you!

_________________
"You can fly like a Penguin when you're dealing with Turkeys."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 04, 2003 2:54 am
Posts: 2904
Location: Sydney, OZ
From the versions presented, it's clear that Dweezil didn't want Andre around during ZPZ's show and asked Adrian to pass it on to Andre.
Adrian said nothing to Andre.
At the show, Andre was around...obviously, because he was working on Adrian's gig, which was on before ZPZ. It's normal for muso's to hang around after their gig to watch the next one. He didn't know Dweezil had warned him off, so how could he possibly be dumb or arrogant or culpable for what happened? Sure, he'd had issues with ZFT but he had a right to be in the vicinity, for fucks sake. He was working there!
I think it's a bit unreasonable for Dweezil to ask that at a public event, someone should not be in his line of sight.
I've met Andre and he's a nice and reasonable guy, not an arsehole. I've also met Dweezil (briefly) and he's a nice guy too. Adrian was put on the spot and said nothing, but I can understand that he didn't want to upset Andre with it and just hoped everything would be ok. He's a nice guy too. Shit still happens among nice guys.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:33 am
Posts: 3576
Uncle Bernie wrote:
From the versions presented, it's clear that Dweezil didn't want Andre around during ZPZ's show and asked Adrian to pass it on to Andre.
Adrian said nothing to Andre.
At the show, Andre was around...obviously, because he was working on Adrian's gig, which was on before ZPZ. It's normal for muso's to hang around after their gig to watch the next one. He didn't know Dweezil had warned him off, so how could he possibly be dumb or arrogant or culpable for what happened? Sure, he'd had issues with ZFT but he had a right to be in the vicinity, for fucks sake. He was working there!
I think it's a bit unreasonable for Dweezil to ask that at a public event, someone should not be in his line of sight.
I've met Andre and he's a nice and reasonable guy, not an arsehole. I've also met Dweezil (briefly) and he's a nice guy too. Adrian was put on the spot and said nothing, but I can understand that he didn't want to upset Andre with it and just hoped everything would be ok. He's a nice guy too. Shit still happens among nice guys.


And it was a festival date, a huge one, which is a different animal. Just one big cluster fuck.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:30 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:48 pm
Posts: 20823
Location: Somewhere in time
BBP wrote:
So speak the men who've never seen my assets. I can't wear cleavage because it makes my voice echo.


My wife is packing even after her surgery, she makes people look her in the eye...after engaging her they always look her in the eye less they miss something important... :smoke:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:48 am
Posts: 6269
Location: Your Mom's Box
KUIII wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
and furthermore... the reason i SIDE with the ZFT on this issue all along is because they own the fucking music and the rights to it. it's really pretty simple. Andre wanted soooooo badly to be part of it and he was rejected. GET OVER IT DUDE! end of fucking story.

Shut up you stupid Trendmonger lapdog asslicking son of a cocksucking mother who has no idea who you father is asshole son of a bitch. Being related to a famous person does not allow anyone (I'm talking about Gail and Dweezil here) the right to be an arrogant, wrong-headed and legally ignorant asshole. And why a great original artist like Adrian Belew would ever feel compelled to Kow Tow to a tribute band leader like Dweezil is beyond me. I think he's probably just too nice of a guy. As for you jaypfunk you assmunching douchebag (just speaking to you in your own language that you 've been polluting this website with for years), I'm sorry you're an over-the-hill piece of crap who only has the Roxy DVD to look forward to in your miserable life. Go suck on a tailpipe you bullying piece of rat excrement.


Image

_________________
Make your checks payable to QUENTIN ROBERT DeNAMELAND, Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:48 am
Posts: 6269
Location: Your Mom's Box
Uncle Bernie wrote:
From the versions presented, it's clear that Dweezil didn't want Andre around during ZPZ's show and asked Adrian to pass it on to Andre.
Adrian said nothing to Andre.
At the show, Andre was around...obviously, because he was working on Adrian's gig, which was on before ZPZ. It's normal for muso's to hang around after their gig to watch the next one. He didn't know Dweezil had warned him off, so how could he possibly be dumb or arrogant or culpable for what happened? Sure, he'd had issues with ZFT but he had a right to be in the vicinity, for fucks sake. He was working there!
I think it's a bit unreasonable for Dweezil to ask that at a public event, someone should not be in his line of sight.
I've met Andre and he's a nice and reasonable guy, not an arsehole. I've also met Dweezil (briefly) and he's a nice guy too. Adrian was put on the spot and said nothing, but I can understand that he didn't want to upset Andre with it and just hoped everything would be ok. He's a nice guy too. Shit still happens among nice guys.


After all the bullshit time wasted, money wasted that Andre put the ZFT thru he should have known better to steer clear of ZPZ. That's it. Arrogance or just plain stupidness?

_________________
Make your checks payable to QUENTIN ROBERT DeNAMELAND, Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:48 pm
Posts: 976
Location: Austin
Seems to me Andre knew the score at the time of this little shindig... if he was going to "hang around" the ZPZ set - he was just instigating something. Period. No different than an older brother "hanging around" his younger brother and just being present... making trouble without lifting a finger. Just be in the same area and create tension.

All a bunch of stupid shit in the end.

_________________
Take a penny... give a shit.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:45 am
Posts: 9587
Location: EINDHOVEN
This topic incited me to reread Necessity Is... and I think it's a smashing read.
Quote:
Unfortunately, in the early nineties a lawsuit between Zappa and some of the ex-Mothers members arose concerning a dispute over back royalties due over a period of of [sic] 25 years. When asked about the situation a few years back, Jimmy Carl Black commented: "I can't really talk about that. As far as my feelings about Frank, I loved Frank Zappa and I always will. He was like a brother to me. I learned a lot from him and I think he learned a lot from the original Mothers. Frank was a real friend of mine. I don't know how he felt, but that's the way I felt about it."
By the time the lawsuit was settled, Bunk Gardner was asked what his feelings were. "They are the same I had at the end of our association in October 1969, which is sadness and disappointment. I'm not at liberty to discuss any aspects of the lawsuit. In closing, all that I can say is that in spite of some of the difficulties, I have a lot of great memories and lifetime friendships as a result of my years with the Mothers of Invention."

_________________
Image
Join the PackardGoose forum! Send me a PM!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:48 am
Posts: 6269
Location: Your Mom's Box
i laugh at the lawsuit mostly for the length of time they waited. 25 fucking years? why didn't they do something in 1970 at the time of the breakup? DUMB!!

_________________
Make your checks payable to QUENTIN ROBERT DeNAMELAND, Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:07 am
Posts: 1584
25 years has to be a mistake, hence "sic". The MOI sued first in January 1985, that's 15 years and 5 months after the MOI demise. Then I dunno what happened to the case, but it was reopened in 1990, this time for "defamation of character" as FZ had dismissed the whole suit as some drug-induced crap (my own wording). Eventually it was settled out of court in 1991. So that's 22 years after the breakup.

I think they decided to sue once they heard that FZ was going to re-release the old MOI albums. Or release the Old Masters set, if you will.

Oh crap, of course, the period of 25 years may in fact mark from the release of Freak-Out till '91! That indeed is 25 years! This was a matter of unreceived royalties, remember! The MOI thought they deserve performance royalties. FZ of course dismissed the whole concept, maintaining that the composer alone deserves royalties and the rest should be treated as mere hired hands. The MOI were full of frustrations for not getting paid enough. So the re-release of old albums could've been a tipping point: as if FZ was going to profit from the sale of these albums again without the other players seeing a single dime for them.

That's my effort to understand this mess.

_________________
Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:10 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:55 am
Posts: 1241
If I read his post right the "sic" is because the word "of" appears twice.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:07 am
Posts: 1584
Missed that one indeed.

_________________
Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:35 am
Posts: 510
BBP wrote:
They've both been nice to me in person but that's because I have sizable assets.


Nice!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:45 am
Posts: 9587
Location: EINDHOVEN
Thanks Phuzby, you understand me. The sic was my addition: Billy James used the word "of" twice there and I wanted to quote verbatim but still maintain my language profile. But were you referring to me as "his"? On one hand it's a mistake I understand, with the Zappa-fandom being very masculine, but on the other hand, did you miss the discussion about my front page on this topic?

Fortunately my home country, for all the flaws within the music industry, does have a separate union for studio musicians, so that they too can get a small amount of money whenever a song they play on is bought or played on the radio. PALM, they're called. Seems like music business is something FZ was attempting to master on the go, since his musicians would be in the right unless they signed a contract stating otherwise. By Dutch law at least.

_________________
Image
Join the PackardGoose forum! Send me a PM!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:04 pm
Posts: 2863
Location: Chicago, sort of.
I think the Dweeze is all wet on the Ottawa deal. He doesn't have the right to dictate where someone can be or not be. He doesn't own the stage, except when he's actually playing on the front of it. He also stupidly involved Adrian Belew, sticking him in the center of something he had no clue about.

It's not harassment to sue someone. But to threaten venues and sue repeatedly is harassment, given that the ZFT never won any suits, to my knowledge. The law clearly allows for tribute bands to play covers and not have to cough up any cash.

_________________
Everytime we picked a booger we'd flip it on this one winduh. Every night we'd contribute, 2, 3, 4 boogers. We had to use a putty knife, man, to get them damn things off the winduh. There was some goober ones that weren't even hard...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:51 am
Posts: 102
Location: czech-o-slovakia
NuclearProstate wrote:
Lets play nice kids. We all know who our common enemy is.

Do you think the ZFT just don't like other tribute bands as they don't make any money from them?

They own the rights but as stated, you can cover music on disc and pay royalties and perform it live in a licensed venue, belongs that is happening no law is broken.


Isn't it ZFT, who gets the royalties?

And, it is ZPZ, who covers the music, not the such members of "tribute bands". Members of ZPZ did not even play in any Frank's band (okay, Dweezil played lead guitar couple of times, but you know, what I mean). But here we are talking about people, who actually played with Frank, and he personally trained them to play his music. Few days ago, I saw Banned From Utopia live (Ed Mann, Ray White, Bobby Martin, Albert Wing, Tom Fowler + Morgan Agren, Mike Miller), and I can't imagine, it can get any better, than this was. I personally prefer to see people, who actually played with FZ on gigs and albums, and so they are at least some part of "the original", instead of revival band, even if it is official and authorized. It's the music, what matters, not who owns rights on it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:58 pm
Posts: 13142
Location: Home of The Mondavi Center.
brunofulax wrote:
NuclearProstate wrote:
Lets play nice kids. We all know who our common enemy is.

Do you think the ZFT just don't like other tribute bands as they don't make any money from them?

They own the rights but as stated, you can cover music on disc and pay royalties and perform it live in a licensed venue, belongs that is happening no law is broken.


Isn't it ZFT, who gets the royalties?

And, it is ZPZ, who covers the music, not the such members of "tribute bands". Members of ZPZ did not even play in any Frank's band (okay, Dweezil played lead guitar couple of times, but you know, what I mean). But here we are talking about people, who actually played with Frank, and he personally trained them to play his music. Few days ago, I saw Banned From Utopia live (Ed Mann, Ray White, Bobby Martin, Albert Wing, Tom Fowler + Morgan Agren, Mike Miller), and I can't imagine, it can get any better, than this was. I personally prefer to see people, who actually played with FZ on gigs and albums, and so they are at least some part of "the original", instead of revival band, even if it is official and authorized. It's the music, what matters, not who owns rights on it.

I catch an alumni show every chance I get. They not only play the music right, they can improvise on it too, just like they did with FZ every night on every tour. DZpZ does a great job of replicating the recorded versions. Not much room to improvise there.

MOI and the ZFT becoming working friends...never happen. To bad too, DZ could learn a lot more about how his dad got what he wanted from the guys and gals that gave Frank the sound he wanted, when he wanted it.

As far as DZ, Adrian and Andre', that shit's going on five tours/years ago, who still gives a fuck anyway? :roll:

_________________
I'm getting larger as I walk away.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 104 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Yahoo [Bot], zappahead311 and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group