Zappa.com

The Official Frank Zappa Messageboards
It is currently Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:52 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 104 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 2:39 pm
Posts: 111
I find it interesting, that as much as the ZFT covets their ownership (as they should do, it is their legacy and their right), that they get all upset that other folks should cover/sample FZ's compositions. FZ was absolutely notorious at sampling - or vamping in 60's terms - other folks music. AF is full of lifted riffs and music, which I recall got him a bit of legal trouble with the Estate of Holst. The estate of the fellow that wrote the original Louie Louie didn't have the clout to do anything, but he could have. Tinseltown Rebellion is nothing BUT samples/lifts of other folk's music, but where is the outcry over that? Take those other folks biz, OK, just don't take mine, is ZFT position.
Remember the crap over the cover of WOIIFT? A satirical take over the Beatles's original idea. Because of that, we have had JCB staring at us from a dress for decades - kinda creepy, I know.

Lightem up potato heads.

Weirdo question - If I have a band that covers Tinseltown Rebellion, can the ZFT come after me? That would mean they own the rights to all the cover vamps included in the song..or just the bits without the covers? An far less interesting version would be left after the cover vamps were gone.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:11 pm
Posts: 3699
Location: Vancouver, BC
Ronny's Noomies wrote:
The law clearly allows for tribute bands to play covers and not have to cough up any cash.


As long as the venue pays the required ASCAP or BMI fees, that is...

johnnycat wrote:
I find it interesting, that as much as the ZFT covets their ownership (as they should do, it is their legacy and their right), that they get all upset that other folks should cover/sample FZ's compositions. FZ was absolutely notorious at sampling - or vamping in 60's terms - other folks music. AF is full of lifted riffs and music, which I recall got him a bit of legal trouble with the Estate of Holst. The estate of the fellow that wrote the original Louie Louie didn't have the clout to do anything, but he could have. Tinseltown Rebellion is nothing BUT samples/lifts of other folk's music, but where is the outcry over that? Take those other folks biz, OK, just don't take mine, is ZFT position.
Remember the crap over the cover of WOIIFT? A satirical take over the Beatles's original idea. Because of that, we have had JCB staring at us from a dress for decades - kinda creepy, I know.

Lightem up potato heads.

Weirdo question - If I have a band that covers Tinseltown Rebellion, can the ZFT come after me? That would mean they own the rights to all the cover vamps included in the song..or just the bits without the covers? An far less interesting version would be left after the cover vamps were gone.


Wtf are you talking about?! FZ was a notorious sampler?! Tinsel Town Rebellion is nothing BUT samples/lifts of other folk's music?!

Put the crack pipe down, Rob Ford...

_________________
:53 - :57...

"...I'm absolutely a Libertarian on MANY issues..." ~ Frank Zappa, Rochester, NY, March 11, 1988


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:07 am
Posts: 1595
He possibly refers to TTR the song, which does in fact include reams of quotations from music not written by FZ, esp. in its '84 incarnation.

Moreover, how come ZFT can release a Road Tapes album that features an avant-rock rendition of Varese's "Octandre" (or rather, the first ten bars of it), yet they are so hell-bent on going after cover bands not named ZPZ?

_________________
Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:48 am
Posts: 6384
Location: Your Mom's Box
Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
Moreover, how come ZFT can release a Road Tapes album that features an avant-rock rendition of Varese's "Octandre" (or rather, the first ten bars of it), yet they are so hell-bent on going after cover bands not named ZPZ?


you're really reaching with this one. FZ was not trying to make a living out of playing 30 seconds of a Varese composition.

_________________
Make your checks payable to QUENTIN ROBERT DeNAMELAND, Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:57 pm
Posts: 782
Location: Atlanta
Not to be picky, but isn't Octandre almost 8 minutes long on RT?

_________________
“The power of pop music to corrupt and putrify the minds of world youth are virtually limitless."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 2:39 pm
Posts: 111
Right, I meant the song, not the whole release-


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:01 am
Posts: 1290
Location: Bordeaux, France
duchamp wrote:
Not to be picky, but isn't Octandre almost 8 minutes long on RT?


I'd be surprised if the Varese Family Trust found anything wrong with FRANK ZAPPA playing Octandre or any other piece, as the "Publicity" factor would be squarely in their favor. How many of us knew who Varese was until FZ pointed him out?

However, how many of the new young hip people got into FZ because André chommesldkeefsky pointed him out to them?

Maybe Gail is really really worried that if she let's anything go "Public Domaine", she might someday hear Baby Snakes MuZAK'ed in a walmart. And no composer of FZ' stature deserves that no matter what!

_________________
"You can fly like a Penguin when you're dealing with Turkeys."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:07 am
Posts: 1595
jaypfunk wrote:
Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
Moreover, how come ZFT can release a Road Tapes album that features an avant-rock rendition of Varese's "Octandre" (or rather, the first ten bars of it), yet they are so hell-bent on going after cover bands not named ZPZ?


you're really reaching with this one. FZ was not trying to make a living out of playing 30 seconds of a Varese composition.


I find Ed Palermo's rebuttal to Gail's claim (that Palermo was trying to make a living this way) quite spot-on:

Quote:
MAKING A LIVING?!! It was at that point I realized there was nothing I could ever do to win her over. Like I said before, I understand, and even admire, her loyalty to her husband, but it is just plain delusional to think anyone could make a dime playing "Dog Breath Variations" with an 18 piece big band. So, it was at that point that I stopped caring whether the Zappas accept me or not. I still wish them the best, because they're Frank's loved ones, but there is only so much I can do.


I think when he says "make a dime" he clearly refers to earning enough money that it could be sustained as a full time career, rather than just a labour of love.

_________________
Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 6:16 am
Posts: 840
Location: Royal Wootton Bassett
Frank got deep inside so many groupies that now he is dead Gail just wants him all for herself.

_________________
Image

Trendmonger wrote:
...and but also


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:33 am
Posts: 3616
The_Acadian_2 wrote:
duchamp wrote:
Not to be picky, but isn't Octandre almost 8 minutes long on RT?

However, how many of the new young hip people got into FZ because André chommesldkeefsky pointed him out to them?


I would think quite a few. Has to do with venues played. Big, expensive sit down theater shows = OLD people. Clubs = young people (and many girls). This has been my first-hand observation, at least. Tho' I haven't been to a ZPZ show since Ray White was in the band. Maybe things have changed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:58 pm
Posts: 13142
Location: Home of The Mondavi Center.
brainpang wrote:
I haven't been to a ZPZ show since Ray White was in the band.

:shock: That's going on 5 years! I hope you've heard someone play live Zappa since then! :wink:

_________________
I'm getting larger as I walk away.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:48 am
Posts: 6384
Location: Your Mom's Box
NuclearProstate wrote:
Frank got deep inside so many groupies that now he is dead Gail just wants him all for herself.


Dude... just kill yourself.

_________________
Make your checks payable to QUENTIN ROBERT DeNAMELAND, Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:58 pm
Posts: 13142
Location: Home of The Mondavi Center.
jaypfunk wrote:
NuclearProstate wrote:
Frank got deep inside so many groupies that now he is dead Gail just wants him all for herself.


Dude... just kill yourself.

I don't agree with Nukeass' sentiment here, but aren't you projecting yourself into this a little to far? It's Sat. night at 9:06pm (according to post time) and your home, or you've got the time to post here. You're getting on in age, eh? And maybe even lonely, aren't you JP?
NOMBiz but WTF? :mrgreen:
To be fair, it's 8:30pm out here in CA., so it should read (if your in EST) 11:30 on your posts. It just shocked me at first man! The Zappa's forum's post clock is way off. :wink:

Ya I know, STFU!

_________________
I'm getting larger as I walk away.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:28 pm
Posts: 2315
jaypfunk wrote:
NuclearProstate wrote:
Frank got deep inside so many groupies that now he is dead Gail just wants him all for herself.


Dude... just kill yourself.

You first jaypfunk, then the rest of us will hop on Hale-Bopp with you, but Howard Kaylan basically said the same thing about Gail in his book.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 6:16 am
Posts: 840
Location: Royal Wootton Bassett
I was joking obviously. But seeing JPF is in fact an angry version of Trendmonger who gets upset over any criticism of ZFT I wouldn't expect any less.

_________________
Image

Trendmonger wrote:
...and but also


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:45 am
Posts: 9804
Location: EINDHOVEN
He's been an attention whore ever since I first got here in 2002. He's basically looking for something extremely hostile to say at each post he sees, particularly with new users. Put him on ignore and never listen to him again. If we all do that, problem solved.

_________________
Image
Join the PackardGoose forum! Send me a PM!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:33 am
Posts: 3616
nah, jayp is much needed in zappa world. way too many nerds who think they are smarter than everyone else definitely need a good beat down now and then. direct and to the point, not to say he is perfect, there is collateral damage (bbp) but he makes me laugh, he's consistent...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 6:16 am
Posts: 840
Location: Royal Wootton Bassett
I find everything he says funny. So I wouldn't ever block him. I don't ignore people I like to read everything people say including Gary.

_________________
Image

Trendmonger wrote:
...and but also


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:07 am
Posts: 1595
Mr. Tuscadero is halfway a buffoon and halfway a walking anger management issue. My advice: never take him seriously. :mrgreen:

_________________
Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 6:16 am
Posts: 840
Location: Royal Wootton Bassett
Exactly and from time to time he brings up some interesting points.

_________________
Image

Trendmonger wrote:
...and but also


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:45 am
Posts: 54
The_Acadian_2 wrote:
I'd be surprised if the Varese Family Trust found anything wrong with FRANK ZAPPA playing Octandre or any other piece, as the "Publicity" factor would be squarely in their favor. How many of us knew who Varese was until FZ pointed him out?


I remember that Rage & Fury was not approved by the Varese Trust (in the name of composer Friedrich Cerha), so until now it is not published.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:33 am
Posts: 3616
LaBizzara wrote:
The_Acadian_2 wrote:
I'd be surprised if the Varese Family Trust found anything wrong with FRANK ZAPPA playing Octandre or any other piece, as the "Publicity" factor would be squarely in their favor. How many of us knew who Varese was until FZ pointed him out?


I remember that Rage & Fury was not approved by the Varese Trust (in the name of composer Friedrich Cerha), so until now it is not published.


Source? Never heard that one before, which I find hard to believe.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:11 am
Posts: 3688
Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
Moreover, how come ZFT can release a Road Tapes album that features an avant-rock rendition of Varese's "Octandre" (or rather, the first ten bars of it), yet they are so hell-bent on going after cover bands not named ZPZ?


you're really reaching with this one. FZ was not trying to make a living out of playing 30 seconds of a Varese composition.


I find Ed Palermo's rebuttal to Gail's claim (that Palermo was trying to make a living this way) quite spot-on:

Quote:
MAKING A LIVING?!! It was at that point I realized there was nothing I could ever do to win her over. Like I said before, I understand, and even admire, her loyalty to her husband, but it is just plain delusional to think anyone could make a dime playing "Dog Breath Variations" with an 18 piece big band. So, it was at that point that I stopped caring whether the Zappas accept me or not. I still wish them the best, because they're Frank's loved ones, but there is only so much I can do.


I think when he says "make a dime" he clearly refers to earning enough money that it could be sustained as a full time career, rather than just a labour of love.

ED said it all in that quote, and we all know that without DZ ZPZ would not make a dime, and without the music of Frank his son would go un noticed for the most part. For any one that loves big band music check out Ed Palermo.

_________________
A government Bureau is the closest thing to eternal life on earth that you will ever see


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:48 pm
Posts: 993
Location: Austin
If you watch Key and Peele --- JPF is my anger translator. He usually says what my angry side thinks about most things. haha. So I am satisfied by a lot of his comments.

_________________
Take a penny... give a shit.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ZFT vs Original MOI
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:48 am
Posts: 6384
Location: Your Mom's Box
BBP wrote:
He's been an attention whore ever since I first got here in 2002. He's basically looking for something extremely hostile to say at each post he sees, particularly with new users. Put him on ignore and never listen to him again. If we all do that, problem solved.


You love me and you know it. Now shut the fuck up and get back in the kitchen!!

_________________
Make your checks payable to QUENTIN ROBERT DeNAMELAND, Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 104 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: college rhythm, pbuzby, Yahoo [Bot] and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group