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 Post subject: XENOCHRONY
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:50 pm 
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In a discussion of Joe's Garage someone mentionend Xenochrony. Most of us are in the know about the technique and it's history...for others there's this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenochrony

Give us your favorite examples of this technique as used on FZ albums.


Mine is "On the Bus". (and upon listening to Occam's Razor for the first time, I got a clear understanding of the technique in particular and FZ's genius on the whole.
"Nine Types of Industrial Pollution" was possibly made in this way also.
"Rubber Shirt" first explanation of the technique in the liner notes of SY.

Also, did Zappa use of Xenochrony on anything other than the "Ampex" guitar ?

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 Post subject: Re: XENOCHRONY
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:55 pm 
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Friendly little finger?
Also its interesting that he still edited lots of bits out of occams razor here and there for on the bus.
TT

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 Post subject: Re: XENOCHRONY
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:24 am 
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All the xenochronous solos on that album were edited, Packard Goose sounds like 2 different solos, 1 following the other.
I think that SATLTSADW is the last album with studiosolos on there (I Come From Nowhere, both solos on Drowning Witch are senochronous) and that every solo on any album after that one is senochronous but I could be wrong.

Amazing that his style was always so flexible and fluid that he could mix anything with anything else and it would still sound like it couldn't be any other way.


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 Post subject: Re: XENOCHRONY
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:03 am 
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My favourite xenochronous pieces will always be Friendly Little Finger and Rubber Shirt. I don't know if Canarsie uses xenochrony - if it does, it's another favourite. The pieces on Joe's Garage are effective because they showcase great guitar playing, but the technique per se is more fully expressed in something like Rubber Shirt IMHO.

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 Post subject: Re: XENOCHRONY
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:07 am 
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unclemeat69 wrote:
All the xenochronous solos on that album were edited, Packard Goose sounds like 2 different solos, 1 following the other.
I think that SATLTSADW is the last album with studiosolos on there (I Come From Nowhere, both solos on Drowning Witch are senochronous) and that every solo on any album after that one is senochronous but I could be wrong.



No xenochrony in "Drowning Witch," they are just live solos with some additional keyboards and percussion overdubbed in the studio. The only possible xenochrony after that is "Truck Driver Divorce" (Them Or Us) although it isn't known whether Chad recorded the new drum track while listening to the guitar solo or not.

In fact "Packard Goose" is from at least three locations, Zurich, Wiesbaden and a third, unidentified solo.


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 Post subject: Re: XENOCHRONY
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:13 am 
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DC Boogie wrote:
My favourite xenochronous pieces will always be Friendly Little Finger and Rubber Shirt. I don't know if Canarsie uses xenochrony - if it does, it's another favourite. The pieces on Joe's Garage are effective because they showcase great guitar playing, but the technique per se is more fully expressed in something like Rubber Shirt IMHO.

I am quite sure that Canarsie is pure live. There are no overdubs on SUAPYG except for an instance of some keyboard in an outtro.

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 Post subject: Re: XENOCHRONY
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:54 am 
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HJ wrote:
DC Boogie wrote:
My favourite xenochronous pieces will always be Friendly Little Finger and Rubber Shirt. I don't know if Canarsie uses xenochrony - if it does, it's another favourite. The pieces on Joe's Garage are effective because they showcase great guitar playing, but the technique per se is more fully expressed in something like Rubber Shirt IMHO.

I am quite sure that Canarsie is pure live. There are no overdubs on SUAPYG except for an instance of some keyboard in an outtro.

There are overdub lyrics you only got too hear SY Album to understand that.and the last song say's recorded in Studio.

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 Post subject: Re: XENOCHRONY
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:35 am 
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HJ wrote:
I am quite sure that Canarsie is pure live. There are no overdubs on SUAPYG except for an instance of some keyboard in an outtro.


You're thinking of Guitar. SUAPYG has a few studio cuts and overdubs.


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 Post subject: Re: XENOCHRONY
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:56 am 
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Theme from the 3rd Movement of Sinister Footwear.

The solo was recorded over a completely different backing track. Replaced it with a another backing track and had Steve Vai triple the solo, with both an acoustic and electric guitar track. Bells and a Bass Clarinet also double the solo.

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 Post subject: Re: XENOCHRONY
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:31 am 
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pbuzby wrote:
HJ wrote:
I am quite sure that Canarsie is pure live. There are no overdubs on SUAPYG except for an instance of some keyboard in an outtro.

You're thinking of Guitar. SUAPYG has a few studio cuts and overdubs.

The booklet says that Canarsie has a basic track from HO 2/19/79 (engineered by Mick Glossop) with over-dubs engineered by Joe Chicarelli at Village Recorders (no date). I would think Cucurullo's electric sitar comes from the studio session. The effect of the over-dubs is rather alien and gives a family resemblance to the xenochronous pieces. And Patrick O' Hearn is credited on bass rather than Arthur Barrow, which suggests that there may have been an element of xenochrony in the construction of the track.

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 Post subject: Re: XENOCHRONY
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:57 am 
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DC Boogie wrote:
pbuzby wrote:
HJ wrote:
I am quite sure that Canarsie is pure live. There are no overdubs on SUAPYG except for an instance of some keyboard in an outtro.

You're thinking of Guitar. SUAPYG has a few studio cuts and overdubs.


I would think Cucurullo's electric sitar comes from the studio session.

Thinking of Guitar Canarsie ain't even on there :|
Why Electric Sitar in studio :|

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 Post subject: Re: XENOCHRONY
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:11 pm 
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What the fuck you talking about cleon i never mentioned Guitar you moron :) pbuzby did

You often find a sitar in studios, a bit impractical to bring on tour, but of course it's possible Cucurullo had one at the Odeon in 79. I'm sure someone here knows if he did.

Main points were that Canarsie was clearly overdubbed at Village Recorders and O'Hearn - who certainly didn't play on the basic track - is credited on bass.

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 Post subject: Re: XENOCHRONY
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:20 pm 
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Electric sitar - could be coral? It's guitar shaped / sized.
I think a coral is being played right at the end of catholic girls, and I think I've heard it on a couple of other tracks - not certain which at the moment - maybe on act 3
A mohan veena could also be transported round like a normal guitar - it sounds sitar-ish.
TT

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 Post subject: Re: XENOCHRONY
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:09 pm 
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Warren didn't have a sitar live with Zappa although Steve Vai would get one for the 81 tour. In fact the opening of "Treacherous Cretins" with the acoustic guitar and sitar is from the studio. Live they played the backing vamp on electric guitars in the 79 shows.


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 Post subject: Re: XENOCHRONY
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:17 pm 
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deuce wrote:
Electric sitar - could be coral? It's guitar shaped / sized.
I think a coral is being played right at the end of catholic girls, and I think I've heard it on a couple of other tracks - not certain which at the moment - maybe on act 3
A mohan veena could also be transported round like a normal guitar - it sounds sitar-ish.
TT
I would Guess Coral as Vai is seen using them with FZ on MTV 81.

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 Post subject: Re: XENOCHRONY
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:29 pm 
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pbuzby wrote:
Warren didn't have a sitar live with Zappa although Steve Vai would get one for the 81 tour. In fact the opening of "Treacherous Cretins" with the acoustic guitar and sitar is from the studio. Live they played the backing vamp on electric guitars in the 79 shows.

Treacherous Cretins is a another song that i thought is not all live,FZ Acoustic Live No,Semi Acoustic yes.

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