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 Post subject: Re: Talk To Frank Here.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:21 pm 
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If I could talk to FZ, I'd tell him that I greatly admire his worldviews but that I've been naughty in that I refuse to vote because virtually all politicians (left, right and center) are worthless lying scum who I don't want to validate (although he would've been the exception if he had run for President) I hope this would leave room for an intellectual debate because FZ's usual reason as to why people should vote (as per his album messages) was 'sometimes the universe DOES work'.


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 Post subject: Re: Talk To Frank Here.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:10 pm 
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You get the government you deserve. Dismissing all politicians as scum is just an excuse to not bother. If you joined a party and tried to change it for the better, you'd be a politician. Would that make you scum?

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 Post subject: Re: Talk To Frank Here.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 5:40 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
You get the government you deserve. Dismissing all politicians as scum is just an excuse to not bother. If you joined a party and tried to change it for the better, you'd be a politician. Would that make you scum?

I joined all the party's. Damned if I could get any of them to listen to common sense though. It must go against they're inherit grain.

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 Post subject: Re: Talk To Frank Here.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:15 am 
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polydigm wrote:
You get the government you deserve. Dismissing all politicians as scum is just an excuse to not bother. If you joined a party and tried to change it for the better, you'd be a politician. Would that make you scum?


There have been some examples of some people who seem very sincere in their desire to improve/change things over the last 20 years (e.g. Ross Perot, Ron Paul) but they are doomed by vilification, innuendo and the weight of the established political machines.

The typical pol will tell you that they want to 'change things' and 'clean up the mess' but these are typical cliches and once they achieve power they continue to screw over those who validated them by casting their votes. So in my opinion repeatedly voting for a stream of corrupt pols is another example of Einstein's definition of insanity - 'doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result'.

I think the best kind of democracy would be to have legislation that is passed by public referendums (one person, one vote) which short circuits the pols who are basically whores of the lobbyists who bribe them.


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 Post subject: Re: Talk To Frank Here.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:41 am 
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CityHallFred wrote:
I think the best kind of democracy would be to have legislation that is passed by public referendums (one person, one vote) which short circuits the pols who are basically whores of the lobbyists who bribe them.

Hear hear
TT

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 Post subject: Re: Talk To Frank Here.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:42 pm 
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It's hopeless... :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Talk To Frank Here.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:45 pm 
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Everything is going to be just fine. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Talk To Frank Here.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:42 am 
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deuce wrote:
CityHallFred wrote:
I think the best kind of democracy would be to have legislation that is passed by public referendums (one person, one vote) which short circuits the pols who are basically whores of the lobbyists who bribe them.

Hear hear
TT


Watch the "Rise and Rise of Michael Rimmer" for the amusing version of how this might end up.

Alternatively there is always this rather nice parable from Plato's Republic (Book VI), which is an argument against Direct Democracy. Horribly foreshortened, the Captain = A sole ruler, the sailors = the people, "the true pilot" = the ideal ruler, the ship = political decision making:

"Imagine then a fleet or a ship in which there is a captain who is taller and stronger than any of the crew, but he is a little deaf and has a similar infirmity in sight, and his knowledge of navigation is not much better. The sailors are quarrelling with one another about the steering --every one is of opinion that he has a right to steer, though he has never learned the art of navigation and cannot tell who taught him or when he learned, and will further assert that it cannot be taught, and they are ready to cut in pieces any one who says the contrary. They throng about the captain, begging and praying him to commit the helm to them; and if at any time they do not prevail, but others are preferred to them, they kill the others or throw them overboard, and having first chained up the noble captain's senses with drink or some narcotic drug, they mutiny and take possession of the ship and make free with the stores; thus, eating and drinking, they proceed on their voyage in such a manner as might be expected of them. Him who is their partisan and cleverly aids them in their plot for getting the ship out of the captain's hands into their own whether by force or persuasion, they compliment with the name of sailor, pilot, able seaman, and abuse the other sort of man, whom they call a good-for-nothing; but that the true pilot must pay attention to the year and seasons and sky and stars and winds, and whatever else belongs to his art, if he intends to be really qualified for the command of a ship, and that he must and will be the steerer, whether other people like or not-the possibility of this union of authority with the steerer's art has never seriously entered into their thoughts or been made part of their calling. Now in vessels which are in a state of mutiny and by sailors who are mutineers, how will the true pilot be regarded? Will he not be called by them a prater, a star-gazer, a good-for-nothing?"

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/republic.7.vi.html

Not that I'm against referenda per se, it's just that I sometimes worry at how they turn out (c.f. Swiss vote on minarets).

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 Post subject: Re: Talk To Frank Here.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:46 pm 
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Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
Somebody knows
But that somebody doesn’t care

Somebody grows
And that somebody’s everywhere

He doesn’t have a conscience
Yet the world is in his hands

If we should rush him he might drop it
And so we all pretend

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The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


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 Post subject: Re: Talk To Frank Here.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:52 am 
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ok but music is a lab humorous

edit: 14/01/09

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 Post subject: Re: Talk To Frank Here.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:09 pm 
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Why is your son and wife such assholes ?

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Bob is a douche !


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 Post subject: Re: Talk To Frank Here.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:16 pm 
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Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
:roll: Ooh ... nasty ... just like a dumbfuck middle aged man princess.

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 Post subject: Re: Talk To Frank Here.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:57 pm 
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Location: Puisard Radioactif
Frank i dreamed twice about you last week ummmm ah yeah you know it cuz you were there :)

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Je suis désolé pour les roles que j'ai joué dans toutes ces videos, ce n'est pas tres valorisant pour l'humanité mais si cela peu avoir fait progresser la science, alors il y aura eu un coté positif.


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 Post subject: Re: Talk To Frank Here.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:18 pm 
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ZutboF wrote:
Frank i dreamed twice about you last week ummmm ah yeah you know it cuz you were there :)

Zut you always make me smile. Thanks! :D

I love you man! :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Talk To Frank Here.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:37 pm 
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Thanks Kapt and you make me happy with all your nice replies to me :)

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 Post subject: Re: Talk To Frank Here.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:45 am 
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Hey Frank, I just watched a youtube of Yo Moma from the Passaic 1978 show. It's not on the bootleg video I have; and neither is Sy Borg. Please appear in one of Gail's dreams and have her release all of this wonderful B&W footage.

http://youtu.be/o7c36lOpptM

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 Post subject: Re: Talk To Frank Here.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:50 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
:roll: Ooh ... nasty ... just like a dumbfuck middle aged man princess.


That really hurts . :cry: Recycle something from the douche bag himself. Another original you are. I should ask why you are such an asshole, but I already know the answer.

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 Post subject: Re: Talk To Frank Here.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:36 pm 
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I don't think they're talkin' about you Frank. They just forgot what thread they were on. At least it's not political BS, eh? :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Talk To Frank Here.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:20 am 
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polydigm wrote:
Somebody knows
But that somebody doesn’t care

Somebody grows
And that somebody’s everywhere

He doesn’t have a conscience
Yet the world is in his hands

If we should rush him he might drop it
And so we all pretend

That's the demiurge - if you're a gnostic, there's still hope.

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 Post subject: Re: Talk To Frank Here.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:27 am 
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Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
@ DC Boogie. You'll have to explain what you mean. My poem is about the human powers that be and has nothing to do with the existence or non existence of gods.

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 Post subject: Re: Talk To Frank Here.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:38 am 
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Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
@ OBDULA X It's not about being original, it's just pointing out your hypocrisy. I'm not on anyone's side over your download problem, but suggesting that if Zappa could actually hear you asking him such a question he'd consider it with anything other than contempt is beyond me. You're a sick person.

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 Post subject: Re: Talk To Frank Here.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:15 am 
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DC Boogie wrote:
polydigm wrote:
Somebody knows
But that somebody doesn’t care

Somebody grows
And that somebody’s everywhere

He doesn’t have a conscience
Yet the world is in his hands

If we should rush him he might drop it
And so we all pretend

That's the demiurge - if you're a gnostic, there's still hope.


polydigm wrote:
@ DC Boogie. You'll have to explain what you mean. My poem is about the human powers that be and has nothing to do with the existence or non existence of gods.


Well, the world view of your poem reminds me of the gnostic view that the world is created and materially ruled by an ignorant and evil being called the demiurge, who has mistakenly been understood as God by the theistic religions - while the real godhead is actually hidden. Through gnostic revelation you can however surpass the world of the demiurge and connect with the spirit of the authentic godhead.

The basic Gnostic myth has many variations, but all of these refer to Aeons, intermediate deific beings who exist between the ultimate, True God and ourselves. They, together with the True God, comprise the realm of Fullness (Pleroma) wherein the potency of divinity operates fully. The Fullness stands in contrast to our existential state, which in comparison may be called emptiness.

One of the aeonial beings who bears the name Sophia (“Wisdom”) is of great importance to the Gnostic world view. In the course of her journeyings, Sophia came to emanate from her own being a flawed consciousness, a being who became the creator of the material and psychic cosmos, all of which he created in the image of his own flaw. This being, unaware of his origins, imagined himself to be the ultimate and absolute God. Since he took the already existing divine essence and fashioned it into various forms, he is also called the Demiurgos or “half-maker” There is an authentic half, a true deific component within creation, but it is not recognized by the half-maker and by his cosmic minions, the Archons or “rulers”.


http://gnosis.org/gnintro.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Talk To Frank Here.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:18 am 
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Frank, did you ever wear underpants? I know tight jeans were 'in', but didn't anyone mention 'it'??
TT

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 Post subject: Re: Talk To Frank Here.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:57 am 
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deuce wrote:
Frank, did you ever wear underpants? I know tight jeans were 'in', but didn't anyone mention 'it'??
TT


The fuck are you on about? A bulge?

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 Post subject: Re: Talk To Frank Here.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:02 pm 
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NuclearProstate wrote:
deuce wrote:
Frank, did you ever wear underpants? I know tight jeans were 'in', but didn't anyone mention 'it'??
TT


The fuck are you on about? A bulge?

Not just a bulge, sort of trying to escape down the left leg. e.g. on zoot allures' cover.
TT

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