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 Post subject: what would you do?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:53 pm 
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I'll be expanding my FZ CD collection immenently. However, I am on the tight side, so I'll also be looking to be 'conservative' in my fiscal outlays.
At this moment, I'm OK with burning off CDs to swap - has anyone:
a/. any objections I'd be wise to hear, and
b/. any FZ CDs they wanna burn and swap?
TT

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 Post subject: Re: what would you do?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:14 pm 
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I don't personally engage in it myself, but like copying to a cassette tape, it is considered OK today and would allow for cheap and expanded exposure to FZ.

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 Post subject: re: wtf ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:27 pm 
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dunce wrote:
I'll be expanding my FZ CD collection immenently. However, I am on the tight side, so I'll also be looking to be 'conservative' in my fiscal outlays.
At this moment, I'm OK with burning off CDs to swap - has anyone:
a/. any objections I'd be wise to hear, and
b/. any FZ CDs they wanna burn and swap?
TT


a/. try gail@zappa.com
b/. no

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 Post subject: Re: re: wtf ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:05 pm 
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slime.oofytv.set wrote:
dunce wrote:
I'll be expanding my FZ CD collection immenently. However, I am on the tight side, so I'll also be looking to be 'conservative' in my fiscal outlays.
At this moment, I'm OK with burning off CDs to swap - has anyone:
a/. any objections I'd be wise to hear, and
b/. any FZ CDs they wanna burn and swap?
TT


a/. try gail@zappa.com
b/. no

Nice, and + 1. Ask, I believe you will get an answer.

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 Post subject: Re: what would you do?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:20 am 
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@slime
If you look at how I worded the post, you'll see I left room for advice before jumping in and asking for CDs here, so fuck you for the insult.
If FZ was alive, I would buy the CDs of course. But the proceeds of my FZ CD outlay no longer goes to the writer, they go to someone else. In my view, that opens up a debate whether bootlegs are OK or not.
I'm a mod on an unofficial rory gallagher site, and we swap CDs all the time, because we are making our grown up decisions. I left the official rory gallagher site because the gallagher family don't allow discussions on the forum about bootlegs. Why? because the gallagher family believe that bootlegs cost them money. Bullshit IMO.
TT

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 Post subject: Re: what would you do?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:17 am 
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You had to know this thread would bring insults deuce?

First of all. The proceeds that you say no longer go to the deceased writer/composer, are still going to his family. Your argument on that point might be more valid if the proceeds were going to some record company mogul, or an ex-manager of said artist.

Isn't tape swapping a totally separate issue from bootlegs?

I entered high school 1979/1980. I had a couple of friends who were as passionate about discovering music as I was. Let's say the three of us had $10 apiece, which would allow us to buy 3 albums. Let's say that I purchased Back In Black, friend #2 purchased Some Enchanted Evening, and friend #3 purchased Women And Children First. We would each go home, make 2 cassettes of our purchases, and give the tapes to each other. We only had so much disposable income for music purchases. We never sold any of these tapes for profit, and this allowed to discover more music. In my opinion, these artists never lost income because of this practice. In fact. Some artists probably received extra income, because we were more likely to take chances buying something we never would have otherwise. I do realize these are different times, and most younger music fans think it is ok to download their shit for free off the internet.

Bootlegs are a different issue, and I don't own any of them. A third party person with no ties to the artist or his family is profiting from these releases. As a new member here, I've been reading back through a lot of old threads. I've seen people proudly posting pictures of their bootleg releases. I am quite sure most of these people would say this is ok because they own the entire official discography. I would have to call bullshit on that one. Regardless of whether you own all the official releases, that is still a purchase that the artist {or his family} receives no money from. So, why is that different from deuce swapping releases with someone?

That being said, I would not be interested in swapping. It would fuck up the aesthetic appeal of my displayed Zappa collection, which is already fucked up enough from having a mixture of Ryko and the 2012 remasters.


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 Post subject: Re: what would you do?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:02 am 
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Thanks philostopher. Many good points - some I don't agree with.
I'll be honest and say I really have no interest in Gail or ZFT at all. I have about 25 FZ CDs, all of which I bought new, so ZFT has had a fair amount of cash from me - so I see no problem with ME looking around for FZ stuff I don't have to pay 'as much' for. I also see little difference in buying 2nd hand CDs to burning / swapping - except that the middle man is cut out.
Real fans who burn / swap are not the enemy, especially those who have invested in new CDs. IMO they are doing the artist a favour by re-generating interest. Some bands do very well out of this - North Mississippi Allstars being a great example. They encourage bootlegs and swapping because the know their real fans will still buy their CDs, and not go to the real enemy - professional pirates.
YMMV.
TT

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 Post subject: Re: what would you do?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:13 am 
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Wanna buy a grunt with a third party check?

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 Post subject: Re: what would you do?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:21 am 
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Buying second hand CDs is a whole different issue. If the record industry had a problem with it, it would have been shut down and turned into an underground industry. Instead, it is openly encouraged on Ebay and Amazon. I only resort to it when the title I'm looking for is out of print. I find that most people's definition of good condition for a used CD is much different from mine.

Out of print CDs is another thing that pisses me off. If you didn't deem the title worthy enough of staying in circulation, then don't release it. The Grateful Dead are guilty of this shit. Let's just release half the number of what we can sell. Then all the fans who are on top of it, and the music dealers snap up the 13,000 copies before the damn thing is released. Now, a $30 CD is up on Ebay for $60-$100 before the actual release date. Anyone who had some bills to pay at release time and needed to wait a couple of months to make the purchase is shit out of luck. If the ZFT practiced this, I would not have just been able to recently purchase Road Tapes #1 at a fair price. So, I applaud them for that.


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 Post subject: Re: what would you do?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:24 am 
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KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
Wanna buy a grunt with a third party check?


Hell yeah! Third party means it's not my check. How much for your grunt?


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 Post subject: Re: what would you do?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:31 am 
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Philostopher wrote:
KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
Wanna buy a grunt with a third party check?


Hell yeah! Third party means it's not my check. How much for your grunt?


Not a fan of Bongo Fury, eh? :oops: Your bad. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: what would you do?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:46 am 
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KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
Philostopher wrote:
KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
Wanna buy a grunt with a third party check?


Hell yeah! Third party means it's not my check. How much for your grunt?


Not a fan of Bongo Fury, eh? :oops: Your bad. :lol:


I got the joke KK. Was trying to make one of my own, and I realize it was a bad attempt on my part. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: what would you do?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:48 pm 
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Philostopher wrote:
I got the joke KK. Was trying to make one of my own, and I realize it was a bad attempt on my part. :wink:


No problemo. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: what would you do?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:03 pm 
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KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
Philostopher wrote:
I got the joke KK. Was trying to make one of my own, and I realize it was a bad attempt on my part. :wink:


No problemo. 8)


Hey Phil, you can pick up KK's grunt on spotifake for nothing


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 Post subject: Re: what would you do?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:30 pm 
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Gray_Ghost wrote:
KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
Philostopher wrote:
I got the joke KK. Was trying to make one of my own, and I realize it was a bad attempt on my part. :wink:


No problemo. 8)


Hey Phil, you can pick up KK's grunt on spotifake for nothing

For a second there I thought you said spotiflake, I was almost insulted from 3,000 lite year's downunder. :lol:
Heavens to murgatriod. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: what would you do?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:54 pm 
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Hey Kiirk. Light years don't measure distance. They measure time. :) :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: what would you do?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:01 pm 
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Philostopher wrote:
You had to know this thread would bring insults deuce?

First of all. The proceeds that you say no longer go to the deceased writer/composer, are still going to his family. Your argument on that point might be more valid if the proceeds were going to some record company mogul, or an ex-manager of said artist.

Isn't tape swapping a totally separate issue from bootlegs?

I entered high school 1979/1980. I had a couple of friends who were as passionate about discovering music as I was. Let's say the three of us had $10 apiece, which would allow us to buy 3 albums. Let's say that I purchased Back In Black, friend #2 purchased Some Enchanted Evening, and friend #3 purchased Women And Children First. We would each go home, make 2 cassettes of our purchases, and give the tapes to each other. We only had so much disposable income for music purchases. We never sold any of these tapes for profit, and this allowed to discover more music. In my opinion, these artists never lost income because of this practice. In fact. Some artists probably received extra income, because we were more likely to take chances buying something we never would have otherwise. I do realize these are different times, and most younger music fans think it is ok to download their shit for free off the internet.

Bootlegs are a different issue, and I don't own any of them. A third party person with no ties to the artist or his family is profiting from these releases. As a new member here, I've been reading back through a lot of old threads. I've seen people proudly posting pictures of their bootleg releases. I am quite sure most of these people would say this is ok because they own the entire official discography. I would have to call bullshit on that one. Regardless of whether you own all the official releases, that is still a purchase that the artist {or his family} receives no money from. So, why is that different from deuce swapping releases with someone?

That being said, I would not be interested in swapping. It would fuck up the aesthetic appeal of my displayed Zappa collection, which is already fucked up enough from having a mixture of Ryko and the 2012 remasters.




I sure miss the 70's, it was the sweet spot... :smoke:


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 Post subject: Re: what would you do?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:08 pm 
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coevad wrote:
Hey Kiirk. Light years don't measure distance. They measure time. :) :lol:

one light year = one year?

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 Post subject: Re: what would you do?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:16 pm 
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A lite year = one new release from the ZFT in twelve Months


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 Post subject: Re: what would you do?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:36 pm 
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coevad wrote:
Hey Kiirk. Light years don't measure distance. They measure time. :) :lol:

Not in my world. There it could be anything I want it to be, even outta site', over, under, sideways, down there. Ya just needs a little imagination and some ruby slippers to get ya to Grey Ghost land. :wink: :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: what would you do?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:30 pm 
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I believe light years uses time to measure distance.

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 Post subject: Re: what would you do?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:04 pm 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
I believe light years uses time to measure distance.

As in "1 light year = the distance light travels in 1 year" {5.878625 trillion miles}
(don't you people watch Big Bang Theory????)

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 Post subject: Re: what would you do?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:45 pm 
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just plain doug wrote:
BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
I believe light years uses time to measure distance.

As in "1 light year = the distance light travels in 1 year" {5.878625 trillion miles}
(don't you people watch Big Bang Theory????)

I missed that part. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: what would you do?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:48 am 
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Finally...hell even I know that and I am sure not the sharpist pencil in this box, and while it I am sure has been covered in BBT, I learned it to save my knuckles from yet another beating by the Nuns... :smoke:


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 Post subject: Re: what would you do?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:24 pm 
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Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
I'm glad the fact that light years is a measure of distance has been cleared up.

The reason I'm not ashamed of my Zappa bootleg collection is because I restricted myself to bootlegs of material that was probably never going to be available officially and that I had no other way of witnessing or obtaining at the time. I am a composer and I've made a fairly deep study of many composers including FZ. Those bootlegs were one of my avenues of insight into how his compositions came together which otherwise seemed to have appeared in highly developed form by magic.

In today's world, sharing the buying of official material is as wrong as it's ever been but we don't live in an equitable world do we. One man get's a $300 fine for speeding and then can't afford to feed his children while another man gets a $300 fine and brushes it off like a tiny annoying fly while lounging in his third Porsche. The first man is being punished in an extreme way and the second in virtually no noticeable way at all for the same crime. I remember how difficult it was to obtain various types of software that I needed when I was an economically struggling independent student and I broke a few rules. Now that I'm part of a thriving professional family I buy the software I need and don't sit in judgement of those who have reason to do otherwise.

Large businesses, that are themselves fundamentally parasitic, bang on about how much money is being lost via pirating in countries where the consumers that benefit have only a fraction of the wealth that is being claimed to be involved. You can't spend what you haven't got. Those losses are more than ridiculously exaggerated. The world is far more complicated than those arseholes make out.

I will come by FZ material however I can while trying to maximise the fairness of how I go about it and I only give a fuck what anyone else thinks about it in so much as the human race is currently up shit creek and I wish we could find better ways to live together. Not giving a fuck about what anyone else thinks is a good way to resign yourself to isolation and misery.

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