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 Post subject: Zappa on Hendrix
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:04 am 
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I've been thinking about this quote from the 1992 Playboy interview --

"Some of the really good things that Hendrix did was the earliest stuff, when he was just ripping and brutal. "Manic Depression" was my favorite Jimi Hendrix song. The more experimental it got, the less interesting and the thinner it got."

I wonder why he would say that... I mean, one of Jimi's more experimental pieces would be 1983... A Merman I Should Turn To Be. I wouldn't call that thin - more like a highlight of 1960's experimental rock, on the same level as Zappa's best work. I can't help feeling Zappa's attitude is somewhat condescending, as if saying "I'm the iconoclast, Jimi'd better stick to his hard electric blues." Is it some kind of weird alpha male of experimentalism contest going on, or what?

http://wiki.killuglyradio.com/wiki/Frank_Zappa._Interview_in_Playboy

http://wiki.killuglyradio.com/wiki/Jimi_Hendrix

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa on Hendrix
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:29 am 
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I think I posted a section of an interview here, but essentially the interviewer asked what he thought of hendrix, and FZ said 'the best thing I can say about jimi is 'theres a man who shouldn't do drugs'', and that was that.
He was dismissive in it about nearly every guitarist mentined aside from John McLaughlin.
Maybe jimi's hippy-freak colours were nailed too prominently for FZ to really like him.
Would FZ have had Jimi as the stunt instead of Vai / Cuccarulo?? Probably not. But, he used to stick the burnt guitar at the front of the stage as some sort of homage. Curious....
TT

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa on Hendrix
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:45 pm 
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Most full of shit thing i've heard is FZ told JH about Wah-Wah pedals mmmm where is the proof,I read FZ say he used Wah-Wah on other instruments,which is why Wah-Wah came out and Del Casher come up with the idea according too him possibly true since he is first too use it on guitar,when did FZ first use it for a start because JH used it before WOIFTM where FZ said he used it before JH.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa on Hendrix
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:26 pm 
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A friend of mine who plays guitar and has for 50 years said Chet Atkins designed a working wah wah, and used it in the late 50's in the studio on a couple recordings, one is Hot toddy, and Slinky. First produced and sold commercially, in 67

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa on Hendrix
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:38 pm 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
A friend of mine who plays guitar and has for 50 years said Chet Atkins designed a working wah wah, and used it in the late 50's in the studio on a couple recordings, one is Hot toddy, and Slinky. First produced and sold commercially, in 67
That be Wah-Wah used on a amp knobs,not pedal.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa on Hendrix
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:44 pm 
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Listen to the songs, not a pedal but not amp nobs apparently it was some sort of device, never the less wah wah effect. and recorded, and with success.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa on Hendrix
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:09 am 
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No thank"s they sound like shit.and yes the devise did have knobs on it and sometimes on the amp think about it Vox amp makers :P

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa on Hendrix
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:23 am 
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Like the music or not Chet pioneered the wah wah effect.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa on Hendrix
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:53 am 
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Cleon is a knob

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa on Hendrix
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:32 am 
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DC Boogie wrote:
I've been thinking about this quote from the 1992 Playboy interview --

"Some of the really good things that Hendrix did was the earliest stuff, when he was just ripping and brutal. "Manic Depression" was my favorite Jimi Hendrix song. The more experimental it got, the less interesting and the thinner it got."

I wonder why he would say that... I mean, one of Jimi's more experimental pieces would be 1983... A Merman I Should Turn To Be. I wouldn't call that thin - more like a highlight of 1960's experimental rock, on the same level as Zappa's best work. I can't help feeling Zappa's attitude is somewhat condescending, as if saying "I'm the iconoclast, Jimi'd better stick to his hard electric blues." Is it some kind of weird alpha male of experimentalism contest going on, or what?

http://wiki.killuglyradio.com/wiki/Frank_Zappa._Interview_in_Playboy

http://wiki.killuglyradio.com/wiki/Jimi_Hendrix


With no disrespect to Hendrix (or, indeed to your POV) I actually, I kind of agree with Zappa. It's the JHE stuff I enjoy the most. Probably, because it's short, sharp and sweet. The Band of Gypsies stuff just sort of rambles away for me.
But then, I'm practically a non-musician, so what do I know.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa on Hendrix
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:06 am 
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I can see why people prefer the more distinct tunes of early Hendrix, but Machine Gun is neither thin nor rambling - a rock solid classic in my book. Another piece that makes me wonder wtf Zappa was talking about.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa on Hendrix
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:14 am 
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DC Boogie wrote:
Machine Gun is neither thin nor rambling - a rock solid classic

+1 with bells on, although the other takes from the same series of concerts are nowhere near as good :? .

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa on Hendrix
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:50 am 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
Like the music or not Chet pioneered the wah wah effect.

For a start the both songs you mention are from 1960 not late 50's like Wiki says on the Bullshit Wah Wah page Wiki :)And it ain't Wah Chet used,some load of shit too sound like Tremelo(Wammy bar) if that's Wah theN take a listen too a decent recording with Tremelo From 1960.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y_NOx9Aubw
THE SHADOWS - Apache (1960) 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa on Hendrix
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:21 am 
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Those chet atkins songs;
Hot toddy has some vibrato early on, but at 47 seconds there an unmistakeble 'wah' type sound.
Slinky has tremelo all through, but there are undulating tonal variations, similar to what a 'wah' might do.
You may be familiar with Rory Gallaghers work. He rewired his strat's tone pots to make one do all the work, the result being an brilliant 'wah' effect direct from the guitar.
TT

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa on Hendrix
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:24 am 
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vibrato - periodic variation in the pitch of a musical note.
tremolo - periodic variation in volume.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa on Hendrix
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:33 am 
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deuce wrote:
Those chet atkins songs;
Hot toddy has some vibrato early on, but at 47 seconds there an unmistakeble 'wah' type sound.
Slinky has tremelo all through, but there are undulating tonal variations, similar to what a 'wah' might do.
You may be familiar with Rory Gallaghers work. He rewired his strat's tone pots to make one do all the work, the result being an brilliant 'wah' effect direct from the guitar.
TT

Yes Rory Did that also a Leslie speaker around that time was geared for that sort of sound.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa on Hendrix
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:37 am 
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deuce wrote:
vibrato - periodic variation in the pitch of a musical note.
tremolo - periodic variation in volume.
Been there but the trouble is a Flanger sound like Chorus who ever manufacturers say's so,Distortion is it Overdrive.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa on Hendrix
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:51 am 
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2 cents...

A Wah is an Equalizer function that gets adjusted by a pedal. It could just as well be adjusted by a knob, same thing as long as the equalizer components are the same.

An Auto-Wah is a Wah without pedal or knob to sweep the sound, you set it so that it wahs either by time or input threshold.

A Flanger is also called a comb-filter because it filters out some frequencies and boosts others based on mixing the unmodified sound with a very quick delayed sound.

A Chorus can be basically a Flanger with a longer delay time. (Yes, I realize some choruses utilize different methods)

All of the above components can have additional functions, those are just the basics.

Distortion and Overdrive... I'll let a Masochist go over the difference between those 2.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa on Hendrix
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:02 pm 
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also there is the system D Gilmore used wah wah back to back, referred to as haw haw, not a joke an actual effect.Personally i prefer less electronics as Vic Juris, or Joe pass

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa on Hendrix
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:20 pm 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
also there is the system D Gilmore used wah wah back to back, referred to as haw haw, not a joke an actual effect.Personally i prefer less electronics as Vic Juris, or Joe pass

Just plung Wah Wah Backwards Invention of the Century.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa on Hendrix
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:43 pm 
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The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
2 cents...

A Wah is an Equalizer function that gets adjusted by a pedal. It could just as well be adjusted by a knob, same thing as long as the equalizer components are the same.

An Auto-Wah is a Wah without pedal or knob to sweep the sound, you set it so that it wahs either by time or input threshold.

A Flanger is also called a comb-filter because it filters out some frequencies and boosts others based on mixing the unmodified sound with a very quick delayed sound.

A Chorus can be basically a Flanger with a longer delay time. (Yes, I realize some choruses utilize different methods)

All of the above components can have additional functions, those are just the basics.

Distortion and Overdrive... I'll let a Masochist go over the difference between those 2.

Good calls Arkay
People would think though Auto Wah is primitive Wah-Wah say is 1967,Auto Wah 1973 because they have always had Knobs i Give it too FZ used the year it came out Mu-Tron_III full of knobs and switches.

Anybody got a bit of evidence FZ used Wah-Wah before JH.

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 Post subject: Re: Zappa on Hendrix
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:14 pm 
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This documentary/puff piece on history of wah wah is entertaining. Zappa mentioned in part II, where Dweezil says Frank and Jimi were friends etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJmY_av_69E Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0HC3SqAEOc Part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha1JlNh74Ek Part 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L4jJdFW6GI Part 4


I think this was previously posted on the forum.


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa on Hendrix
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:39 am 
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Crybaby is one of the greatest pedals known to man. Mutron 3 is pretty cool, too. Fire On The Mountain. Curtis Mayfield is another one who was all over the wah.


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa on Hendrix
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:58 pm 
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This one is interesting too (Dweezil with Stratocaster Hendrix gave to Frank):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2OtCllDjFc


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 Post subject: Re: Zappa on Hendrix
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:18 pm 
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cleon wrote:
Most full of shit thing i've heard is FZ told JH about Wah-Wah pedals mmmm where is the proof,I read FZ say he used Wah-Wah on other instruments,which is why Wah-Wah came out and Del Casher come up with the idea according too him possibly true since he is first too use it on guitar,when did FZ first use it for a start because JH used it before WOIFTM where FZ said he used it before JH.

The more recent releases of electric ladyland (without the naked woman cover) have an extensive booklet. There the story is told, that Jimi attended a MOI Garrick theatre show. After the show FZ explained the mothers equipment to Jimi, including the wah-wah pedal. Jimis first song with wah-wah was then voodoo chile slight return on electric ladyland. I don't have the booklet near my hand, but i guess they provided the exactly date of the Garrick concert, must have been in 67.
The money album was released with pretty delay due to legal reasons.
For me it is proof enough that the Hendrix relatives themselves telling this story instead of claiming Jimi having been the first one playing the wah-wah pedal :wink:
I for myself also prefer the experience to the band of gypsies. But there is also great stuff done by the later bands.

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