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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:15 pm 
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pbuzby wrote:
BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
Who of Santana camp played with Zappa?

If you read the post you saw , mingo l & Luis Gasca. just interesting in that some on this site think Carlos is not a good player.


Whether Carlos is good or not (I like Santana a lot up through 1976 or so and sometimes afterwards), as I mentioned his band is also in California, has had many personnel changes and is a high profile touring band, so it makes sense there are some connections between his band and Zappa's.

Chester Thompson is the only one I know who has been a member of both bands.

Two different Chester Thompsons. The Santana Chester Thompson was a keyboard player. To my knowledge there has never been any shared musicians between the Zappa and Santana camps.


Last edited by KUIII on Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:20 pm 
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KUIII wrote:
Two different Chester Thompsons. The Santana Chester Thompson I believe was a keyboard player. To my knowledge there has never been any shared musicians between the Zappa and Santana camps.


Both Chester Thompsons were in Santana for a short time in 1984 (I guess when the drummer Chester didn't have either a Phil Collins or Genesis tour scheduled).


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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:37 pm 
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NuclearProstate wrote:
Yeah he is good on those songs and works well when everyone sings together. Wish Ray was on that tour, and the Fifty-Fifty guy. I wish there was more of it out there. Just been listening to MAJNH and it blows me away. Can't get enough of the WOIIFTM stuff on there, the medleys are amazing.

The "Fifty-Fifty Guy" Rickey Lancelotti, died in 1980 so I doubt FZ seriously considered him for the '88 band. There's nothing wrong with wishing though.


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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:37 pm 
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KUIII wrote:
there has never been any shared musicians between the Zappa and Santana camps.


Carlos was usually the weakest musical link in the chain in most of his bands. I dig how he plays the same solo in nearly every song. It's quite a thing to maintain and pull off for 40+ years.


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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:08 pm 
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jaypfunk wrote:
The early 1980 shows kill especially Frank's solos.


Yes sir! :smoke:


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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:27 am 
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KUIII wrote:
NuclearProstate wrote:
Yeah he is good on those songs and works well when everyone sings together. Wish Ray was on that tour, and the Fifty-Fifty guy. I wish there was more of it out there. Just been listening to MAJNH and it blows me away. Can't get enough of the WOIIFTM stuff on there, the medleys are amazing.

The "Fifty-Fifty Guy" Rickey Lancelotti, died in 1980 so I doubt FZ seriously considered him for the '88 band. There's nothing wrong with wishing though.


Yeah, I should have done my research. Haha I feel like a dickhead now. I just really like his vocals and want more!

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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:14 am 
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Sounds like Robert Martin is doing a Lancelotti impression in "Sunshine Of Your Love."


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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:17 pm 
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pbuzby wrote:
KUIII wrote:
Two different Chester Thompsons. The Santana Chester Thompson I believe was a keyboard player. To my knowledge there has never been any shared musicians between the Zappa and Santana camps.


Both Chester Thompsons were in Santana for a short time in 1984 (I guess when the drummer Chester didn't have either a Phil Collins or Genesis tour scheduled).


http://www.discogs.com/Santana-Spirit/release/3332512

Drums – Chester Thompson
...
Keyboards – Chester Thompson (2), David Sancious

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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:46 pm 
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BBP wrote:
Vai's most definitely better than most of the "guitar greats" in the sense of melody. I very much liked the orchestral work he did 'n all. Combined with his superior chops, I can imagine he could make anyone feel insecure about his own playing, unlike, say, Yngwie Malmsteen who just makes me happy I'm not a guy. Me I stopped playing guitar 'cos I can't hold them without being in pain in ten minutes.


Guitar Greats? Like, Jann Wenner approved? Sure, most musicians are "better" than the rock establishments so called "greats".
But is this really forgivable??!..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz5w06Naq0c.


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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:51 pm 
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Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
To be fair, it's quite likely that downer mydnyte's interests as far as 80s music goes reside in the noisier and more underground end of rock music. For fans of such musics it's quite likely that Rush may appear as mere lightweight farts!

I wouldn't call Rush lightweight. I like Alex Lifeson's guitar playing. Neil Peart can hardly be considered lightweight. He'd never dance around and stick his tongue out in some candy-ass video, would he? I appreciate the 2112- Signals era. Minus an album or 2. The songVital Signs nailed it. Although if I'm not mistaken it could have used a guitar solo.


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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:07 am 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
BBP wrote:
Vai's most definitely better than most of the "guitar greats" in the sense of melody. I very much liked the orchestral work he did 'n all. Combined with his superior chops, I can imagine he could make anyone feel insecure about his own playing, unlike, say, Yngwie Malmsteen who just makes me happy I'm not a guy. Me I stopped playing guitar 'cos I can't hold them without being in pain in ten minutes.


Guitar Greats? Like, Jann Wenner approved? Sure, most musicians are "better" than the rock establishments so called "greats".
But is this really forgivable??!..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz5w06Naq0c.


DLR. the best frontman ever, maybe with the exception of FZ.
Vai was fantastic in that band. Great playing. Great humour. Great songs.


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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:26 am 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Guitar Greats? Like, Jann Wenner approved? Sure, most musicians are "better" than the rock establishments so called "greats".
But is this really forgivable??!..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz5w06Naq0c.


What the fuck did I just watch?

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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:32 am 
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NuclearProstate wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
Guitar Greats? Like, Jann Wenner approved? Sure, most musicians are "better" than the rock establishments so called "greats".
But is this really forgivable??!..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz5w06Naq0c.


What the fuck did I just watch?


+1

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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:40 pm 
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VacuumCleaner wrote:
NuclearProstate wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
Guitar Greats? Like, Jann Wenner approved? Sure, most musicians are "better" than the rock establishments so called "greats".
But is this really forgivable??!..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz5w06Naq0c.


What the fuck did I just watch?


+1


You just watched Steve Vai displaying his musical integrity.

But what music? It's all just calisthenics.

Someone asked how could I like Zappa and not like Vai? Beside the fact that all of Zappa's best work was done previous to Vai joining the band, just look at him in this video. It's not like he hadn't already played with Zappa when he did this. It's not as if he was a desperate, hungry musician looking for a break. How many "serious" guitarists sank lower? None that I like. Hard to forgive/excuse this kind of candy ass rock and roll fraud. But hey, you have the right to like it.

Quilt wrote:
DLR. the best frontman ever, maybe with the exception of FZ.
Vai was fantastic in that band. Great playing. Great humour. Great songs.

Lemme guess, you still like the shallow, spandex-wearing 80s pop-metal that got you laid in high school? Did you really say DLR had great songs? Compared to what? Or maybe you're kidding.


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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:21 pm 
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Napoleon Murphy Brock, best front man ever preforming Frank's music with Flo & Eddie a close second! imho.

Jagger's still the king of preening, cock o' the walk, rock n' rollin' front man. Although Tina Turner has always had as much energy as Mick ever did and is better to look at too! :wink: (the old videos, not now)

Elvis, before the army. After no way, too many ballads.

Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, all great front men. But so is Neal Young or Bob Dylan. It's all an act in the end and who you like to watch preform it. :)

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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:04 am 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Someone asked how could I like Zappa and not like Vai? Beside the fact that all of Zappa's best work was done previous to Vai joining the band, just look at him in this video. It's not like he hadn't already played with Zappa when he did this. It's not as if he was a desperate, hungry musician looking for a break. How many "serious" guitarists sank lower? None that I like. Hard to forgive/excuse this kind of candy ass rock and roll fraud. But hey, you have the right to like it.


I'm the one that asked the question about liking Zappa and not liking Vai. If you read a little further down. I retracted that question, and apologized for it.

I would disagree that ALL of Zappa's best work was prior to Vai. But that's just my opinion, and I'm not trying to pick a fight over it.

As for the video itself. 99% of those 80's videos were shit. But, if I were forced to sit and watch them all day. I would prefer this one over David Bowie and Mick Jagger prancing around like a couple of queens in "Dancing In The Streets". :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:08 am 
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You just watched Steve Vai displaying his musical integrity.

But what music? It's all just calisthenics.

Someone asked how could I like Zappa and not like Vai? Beside the fact that all of Zappa's best work was done previous to Vai joining the band, just look at him in this video. It's not like he hadn't already played with Zappa when he did this. It's not as if he was a desperate, hungry musician looking for a break. How many "serious" guitarists sank lower? None that I like. Hard to forgive/excuse this kind of candy ass rock and roll fraud. But hey, you have the right to like it.


Lemme guess, you still like the shallow, spandex-wearing 80s pop-metal that got you laid in high school? Did you really say DLR had great songs? Compared to what? Or maybe you're kidding.[/quote]


So when Frank displays his musical integrity with 'Broken Hearts...', 'Sex', 'Promiscuous, or any number of F&E bonanzas it somehow has more integrity then Vai Performing[i][b][/i][/b] some great FUN rock music?

That's fine. You don't have to like Vai, but he enjoyed himself in that band, and I enjoy the music. And I'm not alone.


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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:55 pm 
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Dragonmaster! I've heard about it, read about it and now I want to listen to it. Where can I do this?

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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:37 pm 
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NuclearProstate wrote:
Dragonmaster! I've heard about it, read about it and now I want to listen to it. Where can I do this?


It's definitely from the 80s, I'm almost positive it's from an '88 band show. I think it's from 05/01/88, which is a SBD recording that can be found at Zappateers.

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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:24 am 
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Zappa Time wrote:
NuclearProstate wrote:
Dragonmaster! I've heard about it, read about it and now I want to listen to it. Where can I do this?


It's definitely from the 80s, I'm almost positive it's from an '88 band show. I think it's from 05/01/88, which is a SBD recording that can be found at Zappateers.


Yes (although I think the audience recording is equally worth hearing).


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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:26 pm 
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I found the hilarious lyrics on this thread. But no recording yet. I need to listen to this song! viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1903

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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:34 pm 
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Quilt wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
BBP wrote:
Vai's most definitely better than most of the "guitar greats" in the sense of melody. I very much liked the orchestral work he did 'n all. Combined with his superior chops, I can imagine he could make anyone feel insecure about his own playing, unlike, say, Yngwie Malmsteen who just makes me happy I'm not a guy. Me I stopped playing guitar 'cos I can't hold them without being in pain in ten minutes.


Guitar Greats? Like, Jann Wenner approved? Sure, most musicians are "better" than the rock establishments so called "greats".
But is this really forgivable??!..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz5w06Naq0c.


DLR. the best frontman ever, maybe with the exception of FZ.
Vai was fantastic in that band. Great playing. Great humour. Great songs.

I'm not a big fan of the "hair metal" era but "Eat 'em and Smile" was one of the greatest rock records of any era. It ain't Zappa, it ain't Prog, it isn't the blues, it's ROCK! When DLR put that band together he wanted to blow Van Halen and all the hair metal out of the water so he got the best musicians and did just that for a short while. I understand how Roth's personality and the over-the-top presentation of that video aren't to every bodies taste but that band was smokin'. Great live too! I saw that tour when it hit the Cow Palace in San Francisco. Even the extremely drunk guy pissing in the aisle next to me didn't detract from the show.


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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:08 am 
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God damn I just got TMFU on vinyl and it sounds amazing. Really is a different monster from the CD version. I could tell it was gonna be a winner from the first few notes of Cocaine Decisions. I like the CD version, I'm used to it. Great album BUT this fucking kills it. I do think Zappa made the CD version too 'cold' after listening to this. I do like Luigi though, wish that was on the original.

I hope Them or Us is just as awesome when it comes!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:03 am 
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i'm just recently treading into the post Zoot Allures world. the thing that turned me off initially were the synths, i think that's what ruined the 80s. i'm not a fan of the production (it's too clean) and a lot of the stuff is more "song oriented" than his pre ONS stuff. that being said it's still better than 90% of the stuff that came out of that era.

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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:57 pm 
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I'd just like to update the UK/European concert demand per night average estimate I discussed earlier in this thread.

I initially thought that FZ's per night average was about $75,000 and that it nearly fully stagnated into the '80s, while only increasing in a handful of markets, much like the US average mostly did, peaking at around $50,000 per night. But I just read a Billboard Magazine special from May 19, 1990, celebrating FZ's 25 years in the music business and was pleasantly surprised to learn that one page lists the attendance of the '88 UK/European tour as, "...seen by some 315,000 paying customers." Which if true, indicates that based on the '88 tour's average ticket price of about $17, FZ's demand increased in about half of the 42 markets played and that the real UK/European tour's per night average based on 44 shows, was about $117,000.

Here is that part of the article:

http://www.afka.net/images/Magazines/19 ... d%2013.jpg

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