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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:44 pm 
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How much classical music do you reckon Zappa may have written which is currently only in score form? Seems strange to me there's nothing besides that which he recorded considering how prolific he was, and i'm thinking that perhaps the Zappa people are only focusing on putting out existing recordings instead of making new ones based on Zappa's scores, but perhaps i'm being a bit too paranoid?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:01 am 
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The orchestral version of Sinister Footwear was never officially recorded although there is a bootleg recording of it in the Apocrypha bootleg series (and Beat The Boots 3 downloads).


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:37 pm 
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Ooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhoo :mrgreen:
They threw them away thinking tabulater could never be Figured Out!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:40 pm 
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My guess is that there isn't much of that material. I also doubt that there are more pieces in full notation around. It was expensive to have someone score the orchestral material, and I doubt that Frank would have spent the money to have it done. Possibly, there are some partial examples around, scored by his own hand. And now, where would anyone get the money to bring such pieces to an audience or recording?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:45 pm 
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How expensive can it be? Contemporary classical composers seem to manage pretty well, and i reckon Zappa was wealthier than most of them. And i can understand that actually recording and distributing an album may be quite an undertaking, that's not what i'm talking about, but surely getting that material (assuming there is any) out there so that i can be examined and considered by some contemporary ensemble shouldn't be that huge of an investment. If the music is good, there are ways to actually get it performed and even recorded. There are hundreds of obscure (and often quite irrelevant) composers that are put on record constantly, so why not Zappa, if indeed such material exists?

Two things make me wonder here. One, i know Zappa himself believed the right performance of a piece was just as important as the composition itself, so that there might be a lot of music he wrote but never bothered to divulge until it could realistically be put on record under his own supervision, and obviously his untimely death put an end to that. But second, i'm also wondering whether whoever has access to his legacy may not be considering his scores at all, again, assuming there are any, while focusing exclusively on his recorded material. It just seems likely to me that this music, if it exists, must exist purely in print precisely because to put it on record would have been a major project, and who's to say Zappa didn't have the music ready for just such projects, waiting only for the right opportunity to put it out there, which obviously never came?

Of course, it is also possible that i'm overestimating how much Zappa operated as a real classical composer, but the fact remains that unlike rock or jazz, classical music usually exists in print first, at least for the most part, and written music can always be performed and recorded under the supervision of somebody else even after a composer has long since gone.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:13 am 
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Intersting points.
Could it still exsist.
Imho it's been lost because of something like copied on too Sinclavier and with newer tech don't even after be deleted and can still be lost.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:36 am 
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My guess would be most (if not all) remaining classical would be programmed in the synclavier.
I think as FZ got older and iller, he probably wanted the same result with less effort.
TT

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:17 am 
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FZ in mag interview from mid 80's said too the effect a Synclavier can get the music more correct than Human beings.

I can"t remember which interview tho can remember reading it a few times too believe his statment.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:38 am 
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I thought the idea was that the Synclavier could play things that are beyond the ability of human beings.

To be frank i never liked the damn thing. I think Frank Zappa made very good use of it, he didn't simply substitute real performers with an electronic surrogate, he really did things with that thing which were interesting in their own right. Still, i prefer real performers, no doubt about it.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:55 am 
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I'm not crazy about the Synclavier, because of it's basic icky sound. However, one can't argue that it gave us some really great stuff, such as G-Spot, Nite School and many others. Those pieces may not have been written, or if written may not have seen the light of day, without that contraption.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:21 am 
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Found that Interview

"The main advantage for me with the Synclavier is that I can imagine rhythms that human beings have difficulty contemplating, let alone executing. When I'm writing for a live band, I'm constantly limited by the physical liabilities of the people who are going to play the parts. On the one hand, you can say, "You just keep practicing, be insistent, and you'll eventually get the rhythm." The truth of the matter is, the more you practice, the more the musician hates it; you're never really going to get it spot on if the person is suffering to play the rhythm. Why subject the musician to that punishment and torture when you can just type it in and get the thing mathematically exact? I'd say that a musical ideal would be a combination of the things live musicians do best and the things the machine does best blended into a type of composition that lets each element shine.

Don't use the word Ability or Correct tho i can see what he is getting at :shock:

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:15 pm 
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Opus131 wrote:
I thought the idea was that the Synclavier could play things that are beyond the ability of human beings.

To be frank i never liked the damn thing. I think Frank Zappa made very good use of it, he didn't simply substitute real performers with an electronic surrogate, he really did things with that thing which were interesting in their own right. Still, i prefer real performers, no doubt about it.


Frank got a lot out of it, but the current trend of making everything with Pro Tools on your iPhone would not likely have pleased FZ.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:16 am 
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In The Real Frank Zappa Book he does state he would take a live band over the Synclavier still. But the expense on a full orchestra was too much. And the human element is a wild card.

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